Ultrashock Forums > Community Essentials > Interviews
[feature] Web piracy

You are currently viewing our website as a guest which gives you limited access to forums, files and other resources.

Click here to join now for free, and start interacting with our members, download files and much more!

Click here if you are looking for our Flash files and other professional assets.
 
Post Reply | View first unread | Rating: Thread Rating: 40 votes, 4.28 average. Search this Thread | Thread Tools | Display Modes
1|2|> Page 1 of 2

#1
Bookmark and Share!
[feature] Web piracy
Old 2003-06-20

Is piracy on the 'information superhighway' really as bad as some people make out, or should we just ignore Web rips and hope they go away? Craig Grannell investigates.

According to 2Advanced, not a day goes by without them being notified of several URLs that have some form of 2A piracy associated with them—and this is on the increase. From the hysteria gripping certain quarters of the design community, you’d be forgiven for thinking that Web piracy—or ‘ripping’ as it’s more commonly known—has reached epidemic proportions.

Perhaps the globalized nature of the Web and massive increase in sites has simply made this phenomenon more obvious. Several designers told us how they used to pour over design annuals, looking for inspiration, but explained that these days, folks head to the nearest online design portal, and upon seeing something they like, they emulate it. “However, stealing print design mandates some knowledge of the technology needed to reproduce it,” says Tim Murtaugh, founder of pirated-sites.com. “Conversely, Web sites can be saved—lock, stock and barrel—via a browser; words can subsequently be changed and images edited by anyone with a copy of Photoshop Elements.” Tim points out that the medium is now so open that a large segment of the design community may not be learning a craft at all, but learning to parrot and pirate. 2Advanced’s Tony Novak reflects that this may be because print is more tangible: “The misnomer is that Web site piracy in small bits doesn’t constitute copyright infringement—this is incorrect.” He surmises that the relative inexperience of many within the industry may be to blame: “While the industry is full of immature and inexperienced individuals, we will have rips to contend with. When under deadline, to them the most logical solution is the shortest route past creative block: ripping.”

Jason Arber of Pixelsurgeon suggests that more than mere deadlines are to blame: “Genuine innovators seem like design gods and the speed with which new designs ripple around the world is astonishing. Young designers want a slice of kudos pie, without wanting to make the effort. Ripping is inevitable.” Mark Johnson of clear* is quick to point out, though, that people should distinguish between what is a rip and what is merely following a trend: “The Web enables ideas to rapidly catch on and spread even faster. Exploration and discovery is often achieved by communities feeding off similar ideas.” Tim Murtaugh echoes this thought, defending some of the younger so-called rippers: “The easiest way to learn tricks and tips is to use something readily available as a starting point—something I support. It’s not where you start that defines a rip, it’s where you end up!” Designer Reid Jackson has a different take on learning: “Being a young designer myself, I learn more from reading and experimenting with ideas than from ripping or trying to emulate someone else’s designs.” Despite such sentiments, even staunch intellectual rights advocate Tony Novak concedes that young designers can gain from working with other people’s designs, “although only so long as they never publish such work—any publicly accessible URL does not constitute private use.”

PASSING THE BUCK
It would be naïve to lay the blame for Web piracy solely at the feet of young designers. Many culprits have been designing for years, but when confronted with the accusation that they’ve pilfered ideas, they shift the blame to someone else: often their clients. “That’s not an excuse,” exclaims Darrell Wilkins of specialmoves.com, “If a client asks you to clone something, as an expert in the medium, you should be able to point out alternatives. People often ask for something similar to what they’ve seen because they don’t have the time, inclination or ability to think of something new.”

Such actions don’t only affect other designers in terms of devaluing their portfolio, but sometimes by ripping off their actual Web sites, something that infuriates Tony Novak: “Being associated with a style or movement can be flattering, but we’d rather it didn’t happen via copies of our work, as this leads to negative connotations regarding our style.” Duc Le of Igneous Design has had the misfortune of being ripped twice—both his original Flash-based site and the HTML-based update have been stolen: “The guilty party blamed a freelancer, saying they’d paid him and he’d ripped my design without them realising.”

This sort of thing seems commonplace. “Our site was ripped, and the copy contained our meta tags, company name and contact details!” claims Mark Johnson, “The ripper denied everything, then blamed it on freelancers, then went back to outright denial. We considered legal action, but figured it would be too expensive and a waste of time.” Sometimes, though, stern communication works wonders: “A Knot’s Landing fan-site ripped Pixelsurgeon’s design and even linked to images on our site,” says Jason Arber. “We found the owner via the Whois database, which helpfully includes telephone numbers, and called them, pretending to be lawyers. We said we’d sue their asses if they didn’t remove the site, and it worked! Another tactic is to replace directly linked images with porn—that usually makes rippers sit up and take notice!”

Tony Novak isn’t quite so flippant in his approach to the problem of piracy: “We’ve had enough. This has become a real issue for us, to the point that we recently retained a full-time intellectual property attorney to combat infringements. We’ve since litigated dozens of companies and never lost an intellectual property battle.”

PISS AND VINEGAR
There are other means to persuade rippers to change their ways—rather than lawyer fees eating into your profits, you can make use of the online community, although this isn’t without its problems. “Things can get very immature,” says Kleber’s Tom Muller, “The copycat gets found, mostly by an accidental surfer, who very proudly posts his find on a forum, pointing at ‘the poor sad loser who thought he could get away with it’. This results in a storm of hate and piss replies from other designers.” The issue here is that most people posting such ‘crimes’ have no connection whatsoever to the original design or the copier, and rarely do any research. While genuine pirates are often stopped by such methods, despite how ridiculous it sounds, the self-appointed guardians of intellectual property are often out for kudos. A ‘boy that cried wolf’ syndrome frequently develops, resulting in the flaming of designers for creating sites that merely hint at another, through a like colour or font, but little else. Therefore, while designers at large should be made aware that piracy is a bad thing, they need to learn what actually defines a rip. Experienced designers are unanimous regarding such a definition. “If your inspiration doesn’t mutate and change along the way, then ultimately it’s piracy,” explains Jason Arber. Tim Muller agrees: “Everyone’s inspired by something, or someone, but there’s a difference between absorbing things you see, using them to broaden your own creative horizons, and just taking things and tweaking them. There must always be personal input in your work.”

Rather than deploying designs, getting irate when they’re copied, and relying on other people to combat piracy—be they lawyers or the design community at large—some designers suggest that you should do more to protect work in the first place. While tricky with HTML-based sites, there are tricks that Flash designers can use: “Some take advantage of Flash’s ability to load external SWFs, making it harder to find code,” explains Reid Jackson. He also notes that ‘dummy script’ is becoming more popular, confusing amateur rippers into knowing what’s what. Such methods shouldn’t be required, according to Tony Novak, who lays part of the blame for Flash-based ripping at Macromedia: “SWF is an open format, and there’s a range of tools available for ripping files. Someone armed with ActionScript Viewer or SWF Browser can decompile or extract elements on-the-fly.” He suggests that Macromedia should try to tighten up the format, and in the meantime, designers can combat piracy by developing code server-side.

AND… RELAX
Darrell Wilkins remains unconvinced regarding the viability of such extreme measures: “I guess it depends on how precious you are about your work. We take the view that it’s impossible to fully protect what you have done, so why bother? We spend our time and effort making the next project better rather than trying to secure everything we do.”

“Most pirated sites are usually pretty low-profile, too,” claims Tim Murtaugh, “Such individuals and fly-by-night organizations have little impact on the Web as a whole.” Tom Muller agrees, adding that most ripping is done by young kids anyway, who are eager to break into the industry by emulating favored designers: “Along the way, most discover their own style, and grow out of ripping. Experienced designers that keep doing it only shoot themselves in the foot.” Some do, though, and proving rips is only going to get harder; Reid Jackson reminds us that “more and more designers use software to de-compile code and use it subliminally in their work” rather than ripping entire designs or sites. Ironically, many designers are keen to help out their peers, if only they are asked. While the promotion of piracy awareness may engage some, Tim Murtaugh concludes that a little honesty is possibly all the industry requires: “If you have a quick need, and really must use someone else’s work, at least try to get their permission. With permission there is no piracy…”


RESOURCES
http://www.pirated-sites.com
For over two years, Tim Murtaugh’s Web site has provided a place for rip-offs to be both ‘outed’ and archived. A combination of great design, witty commentary, and straightforward navigation makes this the premiere place on the Web for exploring the phenomenon that is Web piracy.

CopyCatz @ forums.ultrashock.com
Pretty much every design forum of any stature has some area or other where you can talk about (or get into a pent-up rage about) those ‘nasty’ pirates. Unlike the others, though, ours has a funky name, so hop on over to our Copycats forum now, and see who’s been a naughty so-and-so lately.

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
This Web page—10 big myths about copyright explained—is somewhat US-centric and rather general, but is still of great use to anyone who wants to learn a little more about copyright. Read it, bookmark it, and then read it again…
Snub Communications
www.snubcommunications.com
writing and design
postbit arrow 59 comments | 31160 views postbit arrow Reply: with Quote   
Registered User
CraigG is offline
seperator
Posts: 41
2003-03-18
Age: 34
seperator

Ultrashock Member Comments:
DavidNetk's Avatar DavidNetk DavidNetk is offline DavidNetk lives in United States 2003-06-20 #2 Old  
Great article CraigG.
It helps understand better what is and what is not a rip and how to react when you have been ripped.
Reply With Quote  
DigitalOne DigitalOne is offline 2003-06-20 #3 Old  
Craig, awesome stuff. I recommend this article to anyone who wishes to learn more about web site piracy. Top notch!

That's right, those are MY quotes up there!
Reply With Quote  
 molecule 2003-06-21 #4 Old  
great stuff Craig. it helped me understand more bout web piracy.
Reply With Quote  
somaboy77 somaboy77 is offline 2003-06-21 #5 Old  
I think designers should realize that when their stuff is out there it's up for grabs, and there's nothing they can do about it. I'm sure that when you're innovative you'll get the credit you deserve, while a copycat will never receive wide recognition, precisely because he's always (at least) one step behind.

I use an .swf decompiler regularly, to take look at someone else's code, see how things are done, and I have learned a lot by doing that. I've never just c+p'd a whole bunch of code. Even if I wanted to, I would have to modify it to fit my needs.
Reply With Quote  
Hansen's Avatar Hansen Hansen is offline Super Moderator Hansen lives in Sweden Creative Assets 2003-06-25 #6 Old  
"Nothing they can do about it"..? You would be surprised what can happen!

Sorry Somaboy, but that sounds incorrect! It's like saying people should realize that their car is up for grabs when they park it..
Reply With Quote  
swinhoe swinhoe is offline 2003-06-25 #7 Old  
@ mdlv and somaboy77.

I think both of you have valid points here, yes a designers work is in the public domain once completed, and no, maybe there are some things that can be done to protect it.

What i really feel strongly about in this thread is that learning is good and designing is good, but as designers ( and programmers !) we're constantly working in the eye of the public. People are always going to be seeing our stuff etc...

Originality always shines through, and good designers are always going to be busy with new work, is there really much more you want ?
Reply With Quote  
Hansen's Avatar Hansen Hansen is offline Super Moderator Hansen lives in Sweden Creative Assets 2003-06-25 #8 Old  
Swinhoe, I just think people must understand that the code you write and the designs you make are protected under law. You make it - you own it, it's not that complicated really.
Reply With Quote  
swinhoe swinhoe is offline 2003-06-25 #9 Old  
i totally agree with you.


but we (designers) are the only people who think that way.

i believe, that to the general public, they see it as open season.

its in thier domain, thats the business.


having some sypathy with this goes along way i reckon.


Reply With Quote  
CraigG CraigG is offline 2003-06-25 #10 Old  
I'm not sure I agree with some of the above posts - I think many people don't understand copyright law, and certainly don't understand the way things vary from country to country, such as the validation/invalidation of patents, and so on.

A bigger problem occurs once you get away from the 'pro' designers, as many just assume because you can 'view source' that HTML's all up for grabs, and so on.
Reply With Quote  
jassh jassh is offline jassh lives in Malaysia 2003-06-25 #11 Old  
cool article Craig dude...
it's no suprise to me to find
one heck of a top notch writeups in this awesome forum..
man.. you can really learn a lot here..!!
Reply With Quote  
squareeyes squareeyes is offline 2003-06-25 #12 Old  
Welcome comments in that article. It's great to be able to draw inspiration from the work of others but that inspiration needn't lead to imitation. Pirates are like steroid cheats in sport - ultimately they're the biggest losers because they never realise their actual potential.
Reply With Quote  
plasmosis plasmosis is offline 2003-07-01 #13 Old  
do it in FLASH - to avoid piracy
_
_
_


You should take it as a COMPLIMENT if somebody RIPS-OFF your work!

_
_
_

So, if no one has ever ripped off your work, that means YOU SUCK! ?

_
_
_

d e p r e s s i o n = c r e a t i v i t y
http://www.plasmosis.com
Reply With Quote  
modifier modifier is offline modifier lives in Germany 2003-07-01 #14 Old  
In my eyes copying Websites is not only stealing Grafics and sounds.

No, also time, investment, creativity, soul, thoughts and feelings are robbed from the designer.

It is poor, how much people do not have respect for it.

It should be legally forbidden, and be punished with fines.

regards
mod
Reply With Quote  
angelfire angelfire is offline 2003-07-01 #15 Old  
do it in FLASH - to avoid piracy
plasmosis- you need to talk to the 2advanced boys.
Reply With Quote  
x3ro x3ro is offline x3ro lives in Australia 2003-07-01 #16 Old  
according to whatis.com,
Software piracy is the illegal copying, distribution, or use of software.
software != web design. copying a design seems a different issue from copying software .. not sure i can really say which is a more serious issue. i think personally i would object more to someone ripping my design than someone using my code. but then, whenever possible, i GPL my code anyway ..
Reply With Quote  
mylakent mylakent is offline 2003-07-01 #17 Old  
great article
great article!

Here's something to think about:

I work in patent law and one thing I think about (almost daily) is that the greatest CREATOR of all never copyrighted or patented anything.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's up to you.
The journey is the prize.
Reply With Quote  
Hansen's Avatar Hansen Hansen is offline Super Moderator Hansen lives in Sweden Creative Assets 2003-07-01 #18 Old  
Who might that be? And please don't say god or Da Vinci or something like that..
Reply With Quote  
hearsea hearsea is offline 2003-07-01 #19 Old  
ÄãÃǺÃ~~~£¡£¡£¡
£º£©
Reply With Quote  
DavidNetk's Avatar DavidNetk DavidNetk is offline DavidNetk lives in United States 2003-07-01 #20 Old  
Originally posted by hearsea
ÄãÃǺÃ~~~£¡£¡£¡
£º£©
What;s the encoding?
Reply With Quote  
DeeLight DeeLight is offline DeeLight lives in Zimbabwe 2003-07-01 #21 Old  
Re: great article
Originally posted by mylakent
the greatest CREATOR of all never copyrighted or patented anything.
right, so are you trying to say : "Clone away baby!" ?
Reply With Quote  
mylakent mylakent is offline 2003-07-01 #22 Old  
no...
Mine was just an observation.

There's a quote that says that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, although I have to admit that every time I come across a website that has blatantly taken my graphics and content, I do not feel flattered.

It's too bad that people can't get online with their own creativity
and design away. . . without taking from others. And to answer your question, no. I think that cloning is well, dishonorable, period. If I wanted a mirror I'd go into the bathroom.

Reply With Quote  
An0n An0n is offline 2003-07-01 #23 Old  
Last edited by An0n : 2003-07-01 at 21:04.
"Human knowledge belongs to the world."

Like it's been said, the original design is always far superior then the rip-off. So, I don't think it's something we should worry about, atleast not to the point of taking legal action. Perhaps if it bothers you, the creator and not the community, then you should try asking the the person who used your design if they would remove it or change it, but even that is a stretch.
Also, note that just by adding some text at the bootom of your page that says "Copyright (c)2003 Company Name - All Rights Reserved" is hardly reserving your rights to ownership. You must register your work with a copyright office, atleast in order to file for copyright infringement. What about work that was created in a foriegn country? In the time you spent registering your work with the copyright office, filing for copyright infringement, and going to court you could have made something new and better.

"Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time."
Have fun proving your work was created first.
Reply With Quote  
aelius aelius is offline aelius lives in United Kingdom 2003-07-02 #24 Old  
It still sounds like there's a blurred distinction between ripping (taking the actual files and putting your label on them) and imitation (liking the look of a design and trying something similar yourself). Note that the definitions above are as I understand them!

I can't say that either of these are particularly flattering, but design trends are built on an experiment that happened to work, which is developed over time by different designers using the same basic principle from a different cultural and personal perspective, each one adding something new until the idea itself becomes over used and devalued. Then someone else's experiment is successful, and the cycle starts over.

I can't agree with anyone on a general basis. You can't just say all imitation and emulation is wrong - how else do we progress? I come to web design from a film background, where creatives and designers are proud to stand up and say "Yeah, I got the idea for the lighting from such and such a film, it was so effective - that guy was a genius". Everybody get's their credit and everybody's happy.

I think a little honesty goes a long way, and no one loses face. The best directors in the world are people who can recognise great design when they see it and bring these ideas together into a new, original piece of work. But what makes that work unique to them is the ability to develop the idea or concept beyond its original scope and create something worth more than the sum of its parts.

I guess the point I'm struggling to get across is that I see the same designs and ideas popping up all the time. Obviously someone did it first, but only the tightly knit Flash community knows who it was!

You can spot a good designer from a mile off because his/her work is just soaked in their presence and their style. Someone who copies other people's work without developing it or adding something personal to it will never have that consistency or magic touch that watermarks it as their work.
Reply With Quote  
ScriptingN ScriptingN is offline 2003-07-03 #25 Old  
Ok, some of these responses are hilarious to read, but anyways
here are a few "tips" to somewhat secure your
Copyright/ownership of whatever it is that you are making.

1. Create your work, and remember the
Copyright © Year, Name. All rights reserved. statement.
2. Burn/Take a copy of your work on something like a CD.
3. Put it in a envelope, seal it, and then mail it to yourself.
4. Store it for safe keepings.
-----
(5. Alternatively register it with a copyrights office.)

In most cases that will proove valid as evidence in court.
Yes, a "rip" of your work can be looked upon as flattering, but
still.. it's one of the most annoying things to discover.

Great article, and some of the responses are great too.
Reply With Quote  
aelius aelius is offline aelius lives in United Kingdom 2003-07-04 #26 Old  
Unfortunately (this is the same problem with proving copyright for screenplays) mailing it to yourself isn't sufficient proof and will not stand up in court. Envelopes can be steamed open and resealed.

If you're in the UK, where there is no copyright registration and ownership is assumed, the best course of action is to either mail it to your solicitor (will have more punch in court) or register it with an independent body who will appear in court on your behalf should the need ever arise.

There are a few of these, but the one I use is the Writer's Copyright Association, who will register artworks, literary works and even web designs. Some people may scoff, but if you're really worried about it, it's worth the peace of mind.

Personally, I only register my written work, but I don't see why you couldn't register a website.
Reply With Quote  
DenverDino DenverDino is offline 2003-07-05 #27 Old  
Nowdays if you want to be NO1 you have to be like 2advanced in 2000 when they launched the second edition of their website or like whoswe.com ... in movies like Matrix...

That mean technology ! Bullet time effect (the movie) and flash transitions (website).

A website is like a movie... you can not copyright "the bullet time" (ideea and process), the atmosphere, or the explosion from the background of the main character from Desperado. A lot of the new movies uses those clisee / effects.

Of course you can copyright the pictures / images / soundtrack / stills / story (more or less Deep Impact vs Armagedon - released simultaneous).

Ideea is that the pioneers of flash 2A, Pixelranger etc developed a style that for a while nobody could copy it... because the rest of the designers didn't has the skills.

Insteed of fighting with the rips like Don Quijote the real change is to come with something totaly new (like they did before) and beeing again no.1 for a while until the rest of the NET will be able to copy the new style.
Reply With Quote  
fxinteract fxinteract is offline 2003-07-17 #28 Old  
good article
but the ideea is that 2a team they didn't bring a new style !!!!!
other people developed a such of work when
they're inspired from movies and other sources,
pixelranger logo inspiration ( Gladiator : the maximus mask )
and many other examples you might reach them
well nice work but like I said above, other ideeas
in fact other designers works !!!! best graphic designers doesn't work too much on the web field, they win and have better resons to work in
other domains where they're better payed, they don't have
too much time to develope web sites ! hmm games developers

how much they won working for great movies like Star wars, Terminator, Matrix,and other great movies, in fact
INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC, FANTASY 2 and other
studios, still most recognized webdesign teams didn't work at a such
of level !! maybe in near future.


creating a new style, inspiration ?
well it's little hard, at least inspiring from other sources like
movies and other categories
if you want to work in this field well don't even think
to bring by all means something bomb shock becuase
is not allways necessary !
a simple and nice work will be appreciated giving you
the possibility to get projects and win money, experience
comes in time !
of corce don't copy other people work !!
make your own !!!

2 different ways ?

1. TO MAKE WEB DESIGN FOR OTHER WEBDESIGNERS
2. TO MAKE WEBDESIGN TO WIN MONEY


by the way: the new version of 2a look is bad !!!
bad colors !!! give it up with this version ! too much draw !!!!
useless ! I don't like it at all !!!
movies are good ! but the in graphic style they use
old ideeas ! mabye poiting to their slogan [Prophecy]
and what prophecy ? they're talking about originality
using old ideeas ?
the older version is better !
Reply With Quote  
jonnycash jonnycash is offline 2003-07-21 #29 Old  
Prophecy - The Matrix ... they rip-off the matrix main ideea
Reply With Quote  
Clint317 Clint317 is offline 2003-07-23 #30 Old  
Sorry but, I am still not clear on what ripping or pirating a site is "exactly". Is there a fine line between copy/paste and re-creating the idea from scratch? Like back when beveled pixel borders were fresh, I had to get out my trusty imaging software and try to get the same effect. Was I unknowingly pirating someone? Notice the pixeling and beveling in this site - is Theory7 ripping UltraShock off? And why? They seem to be the same to me, just different colors, content, and arrangement. Or take UltraShocks menu bar above for example, if mine "does" the same thing but, "looks" very different, is that a rip?

I'm just not sure. Its like clothes, where every t-shirt has arm holes, a place for the head, and opened at the bottom. If you make another t-shirt, your still kinda following the same "pattern" no matter what it "looks" like. You can patent the iron-on maybe but, not the neck hole. And so, for a web site I would assume you could protect the textual and graphical content as is but, not an art concept like beveling. If you take a picture of the London Bridge and put it on your web site, do I have to take the picture from a different spot, stance, time of day etc.. to not be infringing. Or would I be protected because I did the same thing as you but, I had to create it by hand also.

Somebody throw me a bone here. Where is the fine line of ripping and being similar?
Reply With Quote  
 AlphaXAle 2003-07-23 #31 Old  
personally, i must agree piracy is aweful but sometimes there is nothing we can do. Sure, you can take a little pride by seeing yourself as inpirations to others, however, that doesnt mean you enjoy other people recreating what you just made.

So this is my take on this, if you see someone taking advantage of your work, sit back and relax.

Lets say you were the first one to create wonderful work and made a name of yourself together with piracy on your shoulder. Now, use what you have learned and combine that with new ideas and other factors. In no time you'll be producing something above everything else and continue with you fame. (This does not mean piracy will stop)

The simplify version of this post:
"The never ending story"
Reply With Quote  
CraigG CraigG is offline 2003-07-24 #32 Old  
My take on inspiration vs piracy echoes those I quoted in the article. Basically, if you don't add your own ideas and end up with something different to the original source, it's piracy.
Reply With Quote  
freqU freqU is offline 2003-07-29 #33 Old  
i think we have to understand that piracy and completely ripping a site is never justified.....but as jonnycash points out....how do you discern who came up with the original creative in the first place.......

I recently viewed the Prophecy site and think its great.....but like jonny says.....its creative and artwork is merely a rehash of ideas developed in Japanese anime, the Matrix, Bladerunner, basically the dark industrial sci-fi genre.....i fail to see the originality within the creative approach or how it separates itself from anything else produced on the web that follows the same guidlines for their visual approach......

i don't intend to attack 2Advanced, as a lot of their clients websites are fantastic.....my point is merely that all ideas are born of someone elses......in todays day and age where technology is increasing at light speeds, where a good idea today is forgotten tomorrow.....it is hard to stand up and say what you have created is completely original......the truth is that someone somewhere has probably already done it.....we only reference developers like 2Advanced and FlashLevel etc. as being the industry leads and say their ideas are the ones being copied because they are the companies that are in the medias eye.....they aren't neccessarily the industry leaders.....most of the time its some guy in his basement who just never gets noticed because he is just that.....a guy developing out of his basement........

I referenced Prophecy as being based around the ideas and imagery created in the Matrix etc........but the point in fact is that the Matrix is not even original in that its concepts are based very closely to an award winning sci-fi novel written by William Gibson called Neuromancer back in the 80s......

so who is original anymore.....the truth is no one.....

with that said, I don't agree with blatently stealing a site and merely changing images and text.......but you can't fault people for mimicking a look......its called following the trend......
Reply With Quote  
yesumay yesumay is offline 2003-08-03 #34 Old  
I totally agree with what freqU said. Just how many artist, designers can truly claim that they have a genuinely original idea and just how many have not attempted to copy an existing design or incorporate them into their own designs.

Even great artist like van gogh copied japanese artists , which was a whole new way of art and inspiration to artists of that time.

There is nothing wrong with following the trend. Not everyone aspires to be a great designer or even make any money out of it. I think that unless in extreme ripping cases like Macromedia's navigation bar which u can see in www.pirated-sites.com , just leave them alone. They won't be copying your work forever . Unless that guy is a great fan of yours. If so maybe you could contact him to stop him from doing it.
Reply With Quote  
fxinteract fxinteract is offline 2003-08-03 #35 Old  
it's hard guys, when you think you created an original job, after you discover thast someonelse done a similar job before you, the truth is that every designer inspire somehow from
another designer, there is time when you don't have any ideea and you just must make a job, is good to examinate other ideeas and after create one your own, it is wreong to make similar graphics, exactely same, this mean to steal other designers works, it is not worng to use a similar color scheme,
I have the right to make a sitew in red, even if I don't like it, maybe the client ask me to do one
as long as the site looks different, does we all have the right to use color schemes, button shapes, navigation headers ...?
or just one designer in the world ?
Reply With Quote  
carapau carapau is offline 2003-08-06 #36 Old  
Rip-off is always rip-off
There are two types of copyright material in a website (besides content, obviously): the graphic design, and the coding. Both are intelectual property. Copying either is copyright infringement.
However, concepts/ideas/trends/whatever aren't copyrightable material.
You can't own the copyright for "beveled buttons" or something like that.

If you are the author of some work (be it digital or tangible) you are entitled copyrights when the work is published (i.e., made available to the public). Furthermore, authorship is bestowed forever upon you. You can sell, lend or give copyright permission but authorship is irrevokable and intransmissible.

People who say "copying is a form of flattery" most likely either have done it in the past or intend to do it in the future. If this is true than rape is another way of saying "I love you".
Copying is a form of ignorance and lazyness, besides being a crime in most countries.

Most of the time you can prove you published a website first, if you're the author: use your server's logs (unless you own the server). Any material you used on the development also constitutes evidence.

However, I would advise people not to take legal action at intelectual property thieves. Show them that inspite of your work being intelectual you are perfectly capable of physical activities and smash their knee-caps with a baseball bat or break their skulls with a heavy blunt object. This is another area where you can exercise your creativity.
Reply With Quote  
freqU freqU is offline 2003-08-07 #37 Old  
can you really copyright coding within a website.....be it HTML, Javascript, VB, PHP, Actionscript etc.

all coding is based on languages that were developed as opensource guidlines for the public to use.......

you can't tell me i can't use an actionscript that someone else is using or developed first.....Macromedia developed the language for everyone to use.......

its not creative or original to use someone elses coding, but there is no copyright infringement.....

an individual may be the first one to figure out how to write a script to perform a certain function or action, but he doesn't own it.....if that was the case......forums like this wouldn't exist.....ecommerce wouldn't exist.....search engines wouldn't exist.....

your best bet is to try and protect your scripts as much as you can........but once someone gets hold of them, there is nothing to stop them from using them to their advantage........

point in fact is the struggle that is going on right now between Yahoo, Microsoft and Google to remain at the top of the industry for their search engine capabilities....
Reply With Quote  
dharmesh dharmesh is offline dharmesh lives in United Kingdom 2003-08-07 #38 Old  
I would like to add these definitions which I learned from the BCS Professional Issues Module:

Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) - Intellectual property refers to creations of the mind, inventions and artistic works, and symbols, names and images, and designs used in commerce

Copyright is the legal protection extended to the owner of the rights in an original artwork that he has created

I learned this in the IPR chapter. So my teacher has the copyright for it.

Cheers
Reply With Quote  
nrg's Avatar nrg nrg is offline Administrator nrg lives in Belgium 11 Creative Assets 2003-08-07 #39 Old  
You can definately copyright protect code, freqU. According to your logic, it should be impossible to protect the logo's I created with Illustrator or Photoshop, cause it's a result of using that software (that I not own fyi, I have a lisence to use it, most people think they OWN software).

Copyright is most of the time all about Intellectual Property, meaning you developed your own method to achief something which results in a piece of code, graphics, soundtrack, movie whatever. You basicly use Photoshop or a language as a tool to achief your 'end-result'.

If your work (and thus end-result) is unique (that's the keyword here), you can easely protect it.
Reply With Quote  
AlexD AlexD is offline AlexD lives in United States 2003-08-07 #40 Old  
Excellent article. Great insight.
Reply With Quote  
1|2|> Page 1 of 2
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread: