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Ultrashock Member Comments:
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2003-06-20
#2 |
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2003-06-20
#3 |
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Craig, awesome stuff. I recommend this article to anyone who wishes to learn more about web site piracy. Top notch! That's right, those are MY quotes up there!
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| molecule |
2003-06-21
#4 |
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great stuff Craig. it helped me understand more bout web piracy.
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2003-06-21
#5 |
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I think designers should realize that when their stuff is out there it's up for grabs, and there's nothing they can do about it. I'm sure that when you're innovative you'll get the credit you deserve, while a copycat will never receive wide recognition, precisely because he's always (at least) one step behind. I use an .swf decompiler regularly, to take look at someone else's code, see how things are done, and I have learned a lot by doing that. I've never just c+p'd a whole bunch of code. Even if I wanted to, I would have to modify it to fit my needs. |
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Creative Assets
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2003-06-25
#6 |
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"Nothing they can do about it"..? You would be surprised what can happen! ![]() Sorry Somaboy, but that sounds incorrect! It's like saying people should realize that their car is up for grabs when they park it.. |
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2003-06-25
#7 |
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@ mdlv and somaboy77. I think both of you have valid points here, yes a designers work is in the public domain once completed, and no, maybe there are some things that can be done to protect it. What i really feel strongly about in this thread is that learning is good and designing is good, but as designers ( and programmers !) we're constantly working in the eye of the public. People are always going to be seeing our stuff etc... Originality always shines through, and good designers are always going to be busy with new work, is there really much more you want ? |
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Creative Assets
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2003-06-25
#8 |
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Swinhoe, I just think people must understand that the code you write and the designs you make are protected under law. You make it - you own it, it's not that complicated really.
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2003-06-25
#9 |
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i totally agree with you. but we (designers) are the only people who think that way. i believe, that to the general public, they see it as open season. its in thier domain, thats the business. having some sypathy with this goes along way i reckon.
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2003-06-25
#10 |
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I'm not sure I agree with some of the above posts - I think many people don't understand copyright law, and certainly don't understand the way things vary from country to country, such as the validation/invalidation of patents, and so on. A bigger problem occurs once you get away from the 'pro' designers, as many just assume because you can 'view source' that HTML's all up for grabs, and so on. |
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2003-06-25
#11 |
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cool article Craig dude... it's no suprise to me to find one heck of a top notch writeups in this awesome forum.. man.. you can really learn a lot here..!! |
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2003-06-25
#12 |
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Welcome comments in that article. It's great to be able to draw inspiration from the work of others but that inspiration needn't lead to imitation. Pirates are like steroid cheats in sport - ultimately they're the biggest losers because they never realise their actual potential.
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2003-07-01
#13 |
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do it in FLASH - to avoid piracy
_ _ _ You should take it as a COMPLIMENT if somebody RIPS-OFF your work! _ _ _ So, if no one has ever ripped off your work, that means YOU SUCK! ? _ _ _ d e p r e s s i o n = c r e a t i v i t y http://www.plasmosis.com |
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2003-07-01
#14 |
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In my eyes copying Websites is not only stealing Grafics and sounds. No, also time, investment, creativity, soul, thoughts and feelings are robbed from the designer. It is poor, how much people do not have respect for it. It should be legally forbidden, and be punished with fines. regards mod |
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2003-07-01
#15 |
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do it in FLASH - to avoid piracy
plasmosis- you need to talk to the 2advanced boys.
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2003-07-01
#16 |
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according to whatis.com,
Software piracy is the illegal copying, distribution, or use of software.
software != web design. copying a design seems a different issue from copying software .. not sure i can really say which is a more serious issue. i think personally i would object more to someone ripping my design than someone using my code. but then, whenever possible, i GPL my code anyway ..
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2003-07-01
#17 |
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great article
great article!Here's something to think about: I work in patent law and one thing I think about (almost daily) is that the greatest CREATOR of all never copyrighted or patented anything. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- It's up to you. The journey is the prize. |
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Creative Assets
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2003-07-01
#18 |
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Who might that be? And please don't say god or Da Vinci or something like that..
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2003-07-01
#19 |
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ÄãÃǺÃ~~~£¡£¡£¡ £º£© |
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2003-07-01
#20 |
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Originally posted by hearsea What;s the encoding?
ÄãÃǺÃ~~~£¡£¡£¡ £º£© |
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2003-07-01
#21 |
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Re: great article
Originally posted by mylakent right, so are you trying to say : "Clone away baby!" ?
the greatest CREATOR of all never copyrighted or patented anything. |
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2003-07-01
#22 |
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no...
Mine was just an observation. There's a quote that says that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, although I have to admit that every time I come across a website that has blatantly taken my graphics and content, I do not feel flattered. It's too bad that people can't get online with their own creativity and design away. . . without taking from others. And to answer your question, no. I think that cloning is well, dishonorable, period. If I wanted a mirror I'd go into the bathroom.
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2003-07-01
#23 |
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Last edited by An0n : 2003-07-01 at 21:04.
"Human knowledge belongs to the world." Like it's been said, the original design is always far superior then the rip-off. So, I don't think it's something we should worry about, atleast not to the point of taking legal action. Perhaps if it bothers you, the creator and not the community, then you should try asking the the person who used your design if they would remove it or change it, but even that is a stretch. Also, note that just by adding some text at the bootom of your page that says "Copyright (c)2003 Company Name - All Rights Reserved" is hardly reserving your rights to ownership. You must register your work with a copyright office, atleast in order to file for copyright infringement. What about work that was created in a foriegn country? In the time you spent registering your work with the copyright office, filing for copyright infringement, and going to court you could have made something new and better. "Copyright is secured automatically when the work is created, and a work is "created" when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time." Have fun proving your work was created first. |
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2003-07-02
#24 |
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It still sounds like there's a blurred distinction between ripping (taking the actual files and putting your label on them) and imitation (liking the look of a design and trying something similar yourself). Note that the definitions above are as I understand them! I can't say that either of these are particularly flattering, but design trends are built on an experiment that happened to work, which is developed over time by different designers using the same basic principle from a different cultural and personal perspective, each one adding something new until the idea itself becomes over used and devalued. Then someone else's experiment is successful, and the cycle starts over. I can't agree with anyone on a general basis. You can't just say all imitation and emulation is wrong - how else do we progress? I come to web design from a film background, where creatives and designers are proud to stand up and say "Yeah, I got the idea for the lighting from such and such a film, it was so effective - that guy was a genius". Everybody get's their credit and everybody's happy. I think a little honesty goes a long way, and no one loses face. The best directors in the world are people who can recognise great design when they see it and bring these ideas together into a new, original piece of work. But what makes that work unique to them is the ability to develop the idea or concept beyond its original scope and create something worth more than the sum of its parts. I guess the point I'm struggling to get across is that I see the same designs and ideas popping up all the time. Obviously someone did it first, but only the tightly knit Flash community knows who it was! You can spot a good designer from a mile off because his/her work is just soaked in their presence and their style. Someone who copies other people's work without developing it or adding something personal to it will never have that consistency or magic touch that watermarks it as their work. |
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2003-07-03
#25 |
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Ok, some of these responses are hilarious to read, but anyways here are a few "tips" to somewhat secure your Copyright/ownership of whatever it is that you are making. 1. Create your work, and remember the Copyright © Year, Name. All rights reserved. statement. 2. Burn/Take a copy of your work on something like a CD. 3. Put it in a envelope, seal it, and then mail it to yourself. 4. Store it for safe keepings. ----- (5. Alternatively register it with a copyrights office.) In most cases that will proove valid as evidence in court. Yes, a "rip" of your work can be looked upon as flattering, but still.. it's one of the most annoying things to discover. Great article, and some of the responses are great too. |
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2003-07-04
#26 |
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Unfortunately (this is the same problem with proving copyright for screenplays) mailing it to yourself isn't sufficient proof and will not stand up in court. Envelopes can be steamed open and resealed. If you're in the UK, where there is no copyright registration and ownership is assumed, the best course of action is to either mail it to your solicitor (will have more punch in court) or register it with an independent body who will appear in court on your behalf should the need ever arise. There are a few of these, but the one I use is the Writer's Copyright Association, who will register artworks, literary works and even web designs. Some people may scoff, but if you're really worried about it, it's worth the peace of mind. Personally, I only register my written work, but I don't see why you couldn't register a website. |
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2003-07-05
#27 |
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Nowdays if you want to be NO1 you have to be like 2advanced in 2000 when they launched the second edition of their website or like whoswe.com ... in movies like Matrix... That mean technology ! Bullet time effect (the movie) and flash transitions (website). A website is like a movie... you can not copyright "the bullet time" (ideea and process), the atmosphere, or the explosion from the background of the main character from Desperado. A lot of the new movies uses those clisee / effects. Of course you can copyright the pictures / images / soundtrack / stills / story (more or less Deep Impact vs Armagedon - released simultaneous). Ideea is that the pioneers of flash 2A, Pixelranger etc developed a style that for a while nobody could copy it... because the rest of the designers didn't has the skills. Insteed of fighting with the rips like Don Quijote the real change is to come with something totaly new (like they did before) and beeing again no.1 for a while until the rest of the NET will be able to copy the new style. |
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2003-07-17
#28 |
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good article
but the ideea is that 2a team they didn't bring a new style !!!!! other people developed a such of work when they're inspired from movies and other sources, pixelranger logo inspiration ( Gladiator : the maximus mask ) and many other examples you might reach them ![]() well nice work but like I said above, other ideeas in fact other designers works !!!! best graphic designers doesn't work too much on the web field, they win and have better resons to work in other domains where they're better payed, they don't have too much time to develope web sites ! hmm games developers how much they won working for great movies like Star wars, Terminator, Matrix,and other great movies, in fact INDUSTRIAL LIGHT AND MAGIC, FANTASY 2 and other studios, still most recognized webdesign teams didn't work at a such of level !! maybe in near future. creating a new style, inspiration ? well it's little hard, at least inspiring from other sources like movies and other categories ![]() if you want to work in this field well don't even think to bring by all means something bomb shock becuase is not allways necessary ! a simple and nice work will be appreciated giving you the possibility to get projects and win money, experience comes in time ! of corce don't copy other people work !! make your own !!! 2 different ways ? 1. TO MAKE WEB DESIGN FOR OTHER WEBDESIGNERS 2. TO MAKE WEBDESIGN TO WIN MONEY by the way: the new version of 2a look is bad !!! bad colors !!! give it up with this version ! too much draw !!!! useless ! I don't like it at all !!! movies are good ! but the in graphic style they use old ideeas ! mabye poiting to their slogan [Prophecy] and what prophecy ? they're talking about originality using old ideeas ? the older version is better ! |
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2003-07-21
#29 |
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Prophecy - The Matrix ... they rip-off the matrix main ideea
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2003-07-23
#30 |
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Sorry but, I am still not clear on what ripping or pirating a site is "exactly". Is there a fine line between copy/paste and re-creating the idea from scratch? Like back when beveled pixel borders were fresh, I had to get out my trusty imaging software and try to get the same effect. Was I unknowingly pirating someone? Notice the pixeling and beveling in this site - is Theory7 ripping UltraShock off? And why? They seem to be the same to me, just different colors, content, and arrangement. Or take UltraShocks menu bar above for example, if mine "does" the same thing but, "looks" very different, is that a rip? I'm just not sure. Its like clothes, where every t-shirt has arm holes, a place for the head, and opened at the bottom. If you make another t-shirt, your still kinda following the same "pattern" no matter what it "looks" like. You can patent the iron-on maybe but, not the neck hole. And so, for a web site I would assume you could protect the textual and graphical content as is but, not an art concept like beveling. If you take a picture of the London Bridge and put it on your web site, do I have to take the picture from a different spot, stance, time of day etc.. to not be infringing. Or would I be protected because I did the same thing as you but, I had to create it by hand also. Somebody throw me a bone here. Where is the fine line of ripping and being similar? |
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| AlphaXAle |
2003-07-23
#31 |
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personally, i must agree piracy is aweful but sometimes there is nothing we can do. Sure, you can take a little pride by seeing yourself as inpirations to others, however, that doesnt mean you enjoy other people recreating what you just made. So this is my take on this, if you see someone taking advantage of your work, sit back and relax. Lets say you were the first one to create wonderful work and made a name of yourself together with piracy on your shoulder. Now, use what you have learned and combine that with new ideas and other factors. In no time you'll be producing something above everything else and continue with you fame. (This does not mean piracy will stop) The simplify version of this post: "The never ending story" |
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2003-07-24
#32 |
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My take on inspiration vs piracy echoes those I quoted in the article. Basically, if you don't add your own ideas and end up with something different to the original source, it's piracy.
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2003-07-29
#33 |
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i think we have to understand that piracy and completely ripping a site is never justified.....but as jonnycash points out....how do you discern who came up with the original creative in the first place....... I recently viewed the Prophecy site and think its great.....but like jonny says.....its creative and artwork is merely a rehash of ideas developed in Japanese anime, the Matrix, Bladerunner, basically the dark industrial sci-fi genre.....i fail to see the originality within the creative approach or how it separates itself from anything else produced on the web that follows the same guidlines for their visual approach...... i don't intend to attack 2Advanced, as a lot of their clients websites are fantastic.....my point is merely that all ideas are born of someone elses......in todays day and age where technology is increasing at light speeds, where a good idea today is forgotten tomorrow.....it is hard to stand up and say what you have created is completely original......the truth is that someone somewhere has probably already done it.....we only reference developers like 2Advanced and FlashLevel etc. as being the industry leads and say their ideas are the ones being copied because they are the companies that are in the medias eye.....they aren't neccessarily the industry leaders.....most of the time its some guy in his basement who just never gets noticed because he is just that.....a guy developing out of his basement........ I referenced Prophecy as being based around the ideas and imagery created in the Matrix etc........but the point in fact is that the Matrix is not even original in that its concepts are based very closely to an award winning sci-fi novel written by William Gibson called Neuromancer back in the 80s...... so who is original anymore.....the truth is no one..... with that said, I don't agree with blatently stealing a site and merely changing images and text.......but you can't fault people for mimicking a look......its called following the trend...... |
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2003-08-03
#34 |
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I totally agree with what freqU said. Just how many artist, designers can truly claim that they have a genuinely original idea and just how many have not attempted to copy an existing design or incorporate them into their own designs. Even great artist like van gogh copied japanese artists , which was a whole new way of art and inspiration to artists of that time. There is nothing wrong with following the trend. Not everyone aspires to be a great designer or even make any money out of it. I think that unless in extreme ripping cases like Macromedia's navigation bar which u can see in www.pirated-sites.com , just leave them alone. They won't be copying your work forever . Unless that guy is a great fan of yours. If so maybe you could contact him to stop him from doing it. |
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2003-08-03
#35 |
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it's hard guys, when you think you created an original job, after you discover thast someonelse done a similar job before you, the truth is that every designer inspire somehow from another designer, there is time when you don't have any ideea and you just must make a job, is good to examinate other ideeas and after create one your own, it is wreong to make similar graphics, exactely same, this mean to steal other designers works, it is not worng to use a similar color scheme, I have the right to make a sitew in red, even if I don't like it, maybe the client ask me to do one as long as the site looks different, does we all have the right to use color schemes, button shapes, navigation headers ...? or just one designer in the world ? |
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2003-08-06
#36 |
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Rip-off is always rip-off
There are two types of copyright material in a website (besides content, obviously): the graphic design, and the coding. Both are intelectual property. Copying either is copyright infringement. However, concepts/ideas/trends/whatever aren't copyrightable material. You can't own the copyright for "beveled buttons" or something like that. If you are the author of some work (be it digital or tangible) you are entitled copyrights when the work is published (i.e., made available to the public). Furthermore, authorship is bestowed forever upon you. You can sell, lend or give copyright permission but authorship is irrevokable and intransmissible. People who say "copying is a form of flattery" most likely either have done it in the past or intend to do it in the future. If this is true than rape is another way of saying "I love you". Copying is a form of ignorance and lazyness, besides being a crime in most countries. Most of the time you can prove you published a website first, if you're the author: use your server's logs (unless you own the server). Any material you used on the development also constitutes evidence. However, I would advise people not to take legal action at intelectual property thieves. Show them that inspite of your work being intelectual you are perfectly capable of physical activities and smash their knee-caps with a baseball bat or break their skulls with a heavy blunt object. This is another area where you can exercise your creativity. |
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2003-08-07
#37 |
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can you really copyright coding within a website.....be it HTML, Javascript, VB, PHP, Actionscript etc. all coding is based on languages that were developed as opensource guidlines for the public to use....... you can't tell me i can't use an actionscript that someone else is using or developed first.....Macromedia developed the language for everyone to use....... its not creative or original to use someone elses coding, but there is no copyright infringement..... an individual may be the first one to figure out how to write a script to perform a certain function or action, but he doesn't own it.....if that was the case......forums like this wouldn't exist.....ecommerce wouldn't exist.....search engines wouldn't exist..... your best bet is to try and protect your scripts as much as you can........but once someone gets hold of them, there is nothing to stop them from using them to their advantage........ point in fact is the struggle that is going on right now between Yahoo, Microsoft and Google to remain at the top of the industry for their search engine capabilities.... |
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2003-08-07
#38 |
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I would like to add these definitions which I learned from the BCS Professional Issues Module: Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) - Intellectual property refers to creations of the mind, inventions and artistic works, and symbols, names and images, and designs used in commerce Copyright is the legal protection extended to the owner of the rights in an original artwork that he has created I learned this in the IPR chapter. So my teacher has the copyright for it. Cheers |
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11 Creative Assets
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2003-08-07
#39 |
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You can definately copyright protect code, freqU. According to your logic, it should be impossible to protect the logo's I created with Illustrator or Photoshop, cause it's a result of using that software (that I not own fyi, I have a lisence to use it, most people think they OWN software). Copyright is most of the time all about Intellectual Property, meaning you developed your own method to achief something which results in a piece of code, graphics, soundtrack, movie whatever. You basicly use Photoshop or a language as a tool to achief your 'end-result'. If your work (and thus end-result) is unique (that's the keyword here), you can easely protect it. |
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2003-08-07
#40 |
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Excellent article. Great insight.
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Creative Assets

Linear Mode
It helps understand better what is and what is not a rip and how to react when you have been ripped.