[talk] - New Fi site - Page 2

wolf · 2008-06-24 #41

Each to their own I suppose. However, I don't agree with you about the right and wrong thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox

100% Flash blogs are wrong no matter which way you look at it.

Why? Flash provides more functionality in terms of animation and interactivity compared to HTML. Take for example this site. It's not really a blog, but I could argue that it is a collective narrative.. an almost blog. :P

ps. Sorry 'bout the off topic discussion.

[edit: The site's down right now.. bleh]

jaybirch · 2008-06-24 #42

I agree with Nutrox... I cannot see any benefits of a Flash blog. Blogging is 90% about getting people to your site and Flash just doesn't cut it yet for SEO or linking abilities.

Nutrox · 2008-06-24 #43

Yar, plus a blog is extremely text orientated. I would say on average that the focus of a blog is 95% text and 5% media. (X)HTML is no doubt the way to go when developing a blog, you can spice things up by using Flash for playing videos/audio/slideshows etc. If you use Flash for the entire site you have instantly doubled your development time because all of the SEO/Bookmarking/Trackback/Feed integration that is more or less "switched on" by default in an XHTML site needs to be implemented in Flash... not fun. Then you have the limitation of Flash's render height (about 4000px). The think-swedish site does work around that but it is a very unpleasant experience if an article has a lot of replies.

The question that should be asked is why create a 100% Flash blog in the first place, how is it going to be beneficial to the user experience? I honestly can't think of anything that warrants creating a 100% Flash blog, not unless it is for "look what I can do" purposes.

wolf · 2008-06-24 #44

For the sake of debate, I'll play Devil's Advocate. Don't flame me too hard, it's nothing personal. I just find this interesting.

[edit: Nutrox and I posted at the same time - meaning I didn't get a chance to read what he wrote before posting the following: ]

Okay, I realise SEO is very important to a business with a huge presence on the Internet. I understand that Flash doesn't have the capability of optimisation for search engines, but why would a blog (such as Fi's) need SEO?

Or is it rather that track- and ping-backs and referencing (linking) to each post and the blog in general is the problem?
__

In reply to the above:

Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox

If you use Flash for the entire site you have instantly doubled your development time because all of the SEO/Bookmarking/Trackback/Feed integration that is more or less "switched on" by default in an XHTML site needs to be implemented in Flash... not fun.

Development - especially in Flash - is not something Fi seem afraid of, just look at RoadRunner. I envy them in a sense because they have the balls to do the scary things other companies won't touch, and then they have the knack to pull those things off really well.

All in all, there can be no progression without someone finding the mistakes at the bleeding edge.

Nutrox · 2008-06-24 #45

If it can be done then someone will do it, but we're not talking about the size of Fi's balls here, we're talking about choosing the right technologies for specific types of websites and audiences.

RoadRunner is a top-notch piece of development no doubt about that at all. However, the success of RoadRunner cannot be mentioned without mentioning the MTV site that Fi developed, that project went completely pear-shaped because someone (my money is on Fi) misjudged the target audience. The MTV site may have been solid but that doesn't matter, taking the target audience into account the decision to make the site 100% Flash was an obvious mistake and a costly one at that.

Both the RoadRunner and MTV sites are completely different from a blog though, so you can't really compare them to a 100% Flash blog. The RoadRunner site is a massive portal which pushes a lot of media, the MTV site that Fi designed was essentially a complex media player. Would the RoadRunner site work better as XHTML, debatable, but we will probably never know. Does the MTV site work better as XHTML, most definitely.

uxte · 2008-06-24 #46

More devil advocacy...

Quote: Originally Posted by wolf

Okay, I realise SEO is very important to a business with a huge presence on the Internet. I understand that Flash doesn't have the capability of optimisation for search engines, but why would a blog (such as Fi's) need SEO?

Do you really think that all possible FI clients (their target) know them? I know that at this level it works more on referencing than on searching but it's usual for marketing offices to use search engines for pitching design companies. FI also want to show to their clients which may be interested in SEO optimized websites that they can do it as well.

Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox

...Would the RoadRunner work better as XHTML, debatable, but we will probably never know. Does the MTV site work better as XHTML, most definitely.

In the end it depends on development quality while using any tool available, RoadRunner is a good example of amazing work in Flash while most people would find it not applicable for the development of such project and the MTV site a really bad example of a mix of technologies XHTML, Javascript, Ajax, Flash, etc with so many bugs and poor user experience and interface design.

Zee · 2008-07-17 #47

Ditto!!!!!!! I cannot stand all flash sites anymore - though our company site is full flash. Never again though - unless something drastically changes. What though? I have no idea. The future of the web I guess...

drop · 2008-07-18 #48

I still love good executed flash sites, i think they are amazing. It really depends on the audience of the site, the message that wants to be made. For example I would mind a site like the FWA Theater in flash, it’s well done, it loads fast and the content is there.

On the other side, Adobe and Google teemed up do make .swf files more accessible for search engines, I don’t know if its the already crawling swf files or if there is any new algorithm for the crawling, but this news is “new”.

http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...chability.html

Have you noticed the little updates on the FI site? The new functionalities ? how much time did that take them?

ghempton · 2008-07-19 #49

All I can say is wow...and not in a good way. I have been a serious fan of fantasy interfaces/interactive since I was in high school and I am really disappointed in the direction they have taken. Judging from the site, it looks like they are becoming just a plain xhtml/css/javascript outfit-- and a mediocre one at that. Its too bad, because flash and flex are finally reaching a maturity level so that they really can compete with html on accessibility and useability. In the past I have always perceived FI as a contrarian that makes amazing sites which are clearly distinguished from other outfits, but I guess they have gotten much more conservative. I can't help but think that I could just go to stylegala.com or cssbeauty.com and see a million sites that are (better) than this new FI site.

Well, at least there is still 2a.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:


	Ultrashock Forums > Lounge > Random Chat • [talk] - New Fi site	Member Blogs

	wolf	2008-06-24 #41
	Each to their own I suppose. However, I don't agree with you about the right and wrong thing. Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox 100% Flash blogs are wrong no matter which way you look at it. Why? Flash provides more functionality in terms of animation and interactivity compared to HTML. Take for example this site. It's not really a blog, but I could argue that it is a collective narrative.. an almost blog. :P ps. Sorry 'bout the off topic discussion. [edit: The site's down right now.. bleh]

	jaybirch 1 Blog Entries	2008-06-24 #42
	I agree with Nutrox... I cannot see any benefits of a Flash blog. Blogging is 90% about getting people to your site and Flash just doesn't cut it yet for SEO or linking abilities.

	Nutrox 1 Blog Entries 13 Creative Assets	2008-06-24 #43
	Last edited by Nutrox : 2008-07-19 at 08:58. Yar, plus a blog is extremely text orientated. I would say on average that the focus of a blog is 95% text and 5% media. (X)HTML is no doubt the way to go when developing a blog, you can spice things up by using Flash for playing videos/audio/slideshows etc. If you use Flash for the entire site you have instantly doubled your development time because all of the SEO/Bookmarking/Trackback/Feed integration that is more or less "switched on" by default in an XHTML site needs to be implemented in Flash... not fun. Then you have the limitation of Flash's render height (about 4000px). The think-swedish site does work around that but it is a very unpleasant experience if an article has a lot of replies. The question that should be asked is why create a 100% Flash blog in the first place, how is it going to be beneficial to the user experience? I honestly can't think of anything that warrants creating a 100% Flash blog, not unless it is for "look what I can do" purposes.

	wolf	2008-06-24 #44
	For the sake of debate, I'll play Devil's Advocate. Don't flame me too hard, it's nothing personal. I just find this interesting. [edit: Nutrox and I posted at the same time - meaning I didn't get a chance to read what he wrote before posting the following: ] Okay, I realise SEO is very important to a business with a huge presence on the Internet. I understand that Flash doesn't have the capability of optimisation for search engines, but why would a blog (such as Fi's) need SEO? Or is it rather that track- and ping-backs and referencing (linking) to each post and the blog in general is the problem? __ In reply to the above: Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox If you use Flash for the entire site you have instantly doubled your development time because all of the SEO/Bookmarking/Trackback/Feed integration that is more or less "switched on" by default in an XHTML site needs to be implemented in Flash... not fun. Development - especially in Flash - is not something Fi seem afraid of, just look at RoadRunner. I envy them in a sense because they have the balls to do the scary things other companies won't touch, and then they have the knack to pull those things off really well. All in all, there can be no progression without someone finding the mistakes at the bleeding edge.

	Nutrox 1 Blog Entries 13 Creative Assets	2008-06-24 #45
	Last edited by Nutrox : 2008-07-19 at 09:00. If it can be done then someone will do it, but we're not talking about the size of Fi's balls here, we're talking about choosing the right technologies for specific types of websites and audiences. RoadRunner is a top-notch piece of development no doubt about that at all. However, the success of RoadRunner cannot be mentioned without mentioning the MTV site that Fi developed, that project went completely pear-shaped because someone (my money is on Fi) misjudged the target audience. The MTV site may have been solid but that doesn't matter, taking the target audience into account the decision to make the site 100% Flash was an obvious mistake and a costly one at that. Both the RoadRunner and MTV sites are completely different from a blog though, so you can't really compare them to a 100% Flash blog. The RoadRunner site is a massive portal which pushes a lot of media, the MTV site that Fi designed was essentially a complex media player. Would the RoadRunner site work better as XHTML, debatable, but we will probably never know. Does the MTV site work better as XHTML, most definitely.

	uxte 1 Blog Entries	2008-06-24 #46
	More devil advocacy... Quote: Originally Posted by wolf Okay, I realise SEO is very important to a business with a huge presence on the Internet. I understand that Flash doesn't have the capability of optimisation for search engines, but why would a blog (such as Fi's) need SEO? Do you really think that all possible FI clients (their target) know them? I know that at this level it works more on referencing than on searching but it's usual for marketing offices to use search engines for pitching design companies. FI also want to show to their clients which may be interested in SEO optimized websites that they can do it as well. Quote: Originally Posted by Nutrox ...Would the RoadRunner work better as XHTML, debatable, but we will probably never know. Does the MTV site work better as XHTML, most definitely. In the end it depends on development quality while using any tool available, RoadRunner is a good example of amazing work in Flash while most people would find it not applicable for the development of such project and the MTV site a really bad example of a mix of technologies XHTML, Javascript, Ajax, Flash, etc with so many bugs and poor user experience and interface design.

	Zee	2008-07-17 #47
	Ditto!!!!!!! I cannot stand all flash sites anymore - though our company site is full flash. Never again though - unless something drastically changes. What though? I have no idea. The future of the web I guess...

	drop 2 Creative Assets	2008-07-18 #48
	I still love good executed flash sites, i think they are amazing. It really depends on the audience of the site, the message that wants to be made. For example I would mind a site like the FWA Theater in flash, it’s well done, it loads fast and the content is there. On the other side, Adobe and Google teemed up do make .swf files more accessible for search engines, I don’t know if its the already crawling swf files or if there is any new algorithm for the crawling, but this news is “new”. http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashpla...chability.html Have you noticed the little updates on the FI site? The new functionalities ? how much time did that take them?

	ghempton	2008-07-19 #49
	All I can say is wow...and not in a good way. I have been a serious fan of fantasy interfaces/interactive since I was in high school and I am really disappointed in the direction they have taken. Judging from the site, it looks like they are becoming just a plain xhtml/css/javascript outfit-- and a mediocre one at that. Its too bad, because flash and flex are finally reaching a maturity level so that they really can compete with html on accessibility and useability. In the past I have always perceived FI as a contrarian that makes amazing sites which are clearly distinguished from other outfits, but I guess they have gotten much more conservative. I can't help but think that I could just go to stylegala.com or cssbeauty.com and see a million sites that are (better) than this new FI site. Well, at least there is still 2a.