[internet] Firefox nears 1.0, seeks NYT ad

2004-10-19

As Firefox, Mozilla's browser alternative to Microsoft's Internet Explorer, nears its 1.0 release the folks from Spread Firefox are seeking funds to run full-page ads in the New York Times. This is a bold move for an open-source project in a time when the browser wars are back. Firefox has seen some heavy promotion in the past months from the Get Firefox initiative, and this latest move is sure to push the browser's adoption, thus helping the browser wars. If you believe in the open-source browser and in adoption of the W3C's standards, why not give a few dollars and help spread Firefox?

I really do find it all.

Jack · 2004-10-19 #2

IE---is to strong
why ?
we all know why

kazual100 · 2004-10-19 #3

umm, sorry - I personally HATE "The Browser Wars"....the differences in each browser (and the fact that you have to code around all these differences) makes my job as a developer WAY HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!....I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree??

satchmo511 · 2004-10-19 #4

kazual100, I agree. Browser wars really urk me. We all have our preferences, but my goodness, what is all the fuss about? It is just a browser. I think the standard could definitely be better.

Although, there is something to be said about job security. The more complex browsers become, and the greater differences between them, the more work I have to pay the bills.

cubano1830 · 2004-10-19 #5

I am curently using Firefox since come out and is very quick and nice (more than Opera or IE), i love it, and is the best browser ever made in the history of mankind

Hansen · 2004-10-19 #6

Why not just follow the W3C's standards? I'm a late bloomer and have only used it for a few weeks but it's better than I ever thought a browser could be...

I've got everything I need in one little window.. Sage provides me with easy access to all my news feeds and the Web Developer tool is simply amazing..

megatron51 · 2004-10-19 #7

Firefox is invaluable to me, I use it as my default browser for just about everything, the Web Developer toolbar extension is great, adding many useful features to your fingertips. The customizability is good too, just click to seamlessly install extensions for any other feature you may want, tabs are great too.

The fact is, IE has been stagnant for about 3 years now, and blows in the standard's compliance area. These standards help to ensure that your site looks good in any browser, as a developer that saves me a lot of time coding if I know that different browser's follow the same standards. A site I recently finished required using PNG files as a border, because of their alpha transparency, I could "float" the site on the background. Guess what, IE lacks PNG support, so I had to find a javascript work around, but every other new browser seems to support the PNG format's inherent transparency.

If anything comes out of this new round of "browser wars" I hope that Microsoft recognizes that they need to improve IE, the past few months have shown that open source technology can chip away at the IE stranglehold.

ErieDesign · 2004-10-19 #8

I like firefox and opera a lot, but lets face it resistance is futile when your dealing with locutus gates. Only the true nerds will ever switch.

<-nerd.

Plus the more little browsers that come along and become moderatly popular the more f***ing time i spend making it so a table doesnt move 2 pixels on firefox but not on IE. arggh!

harlequin · 2004-10-19 #9

I don't know guys, I donated 30 bucks because I'm sick of microsoft's attitude here. They've gone on record as saying; "We'll only support those standards that we think are worthwhile".

Having microsoft dictate standards is like having the US dictate world law.

Basta · 2004-10-19 #10

well Mozilla is at 17% and going strong

true the stats are biased, but it gives a good rough idea

gump · 2004-10-20 #11

firefox will become IE sooner or later, same as linux vs windows

Fakepilot · 2004-10-20 #12

I like Firefox. Except one problem. If someone solves that, sure, I can support Firefox. Have anyone tried having an .swf in 100% width and height, no scale? Doesn't work in Firefox. Why?

gtonic · 2004-10-20 #13

I hope that Microsoft recognizes that they need to improve IE, the past few months have shown that open source technology can chip away at the IE stranglehold.

I certainly agree with you there. Microsoft need to really improve and boost IE's capabiltites and we will only see when its overhaul is intergrated in Longhorn. I really think it's ignorant the fact that they don't want to make IE full standard compliant. If they want internet users to keep using IE, then they would make sure everything is in fine working order and benefits a wide range of users such as designers like us among here. It has only been today, right now, that I am using Firefox for the first time because of a download problem. I think Firefox is great but I am no way indicating that we all should abandon IE. I think both web browsers are good in their separate areas. Of course, I do agree that Firefox has good features such as Tab Browsing, easy accessibility to menus and so forth. I think Mircosoft should ignore everything on the news or on the Internet. Not to ignore the fact they need to improve IE on security for example, but they should not be overwhelmed by the media and concentrate on making IE simply better. As you guys here have said, Design is not a job, its a passion. I cant see why it cannot be appied to Microsoft if they really want IE to be top.

edit: Since im new to FF, guys how can I fix the webpage when I post a reply? I seem to have to scroll down more and I can actually see the table borders?

jocabola · 2004-10-20 #14

Fake pilot...
this problem with flash is solved since 0.9!! are u using 0.8?
firefox is already at the 1.0 pre-release...

anyway, you need to add the following code on your head:

<style type="text/css">
html, body { height:100%; margin:0; padding:0; }
</style>

nothing can beat CSS! ;-)

Trance · 2004-10-20 #15

If m$ launches a standard compliant IE7, then adios mozilla, that will be the basic expression of everyone, the reason why many people are switching to MOZ is beacuase IE sucks, but really sucks at handling CSS

Let's see what IE 7 can say about that..

scrizz · 2004-10-20 #16

Originally posted by Trance.
If m$ launches a standard compliant IE7, then adios mozilla, that will be the basic expression of everyone, the reason why many people are switching to MOZ is beacuase IE sucks, but really sucks at handling CSS

Let's see what IE 7 can say about that..

That’s the whole point. It would be great if Microsoft would follow the rest of the industry and comply with the W3C's recommendations but as of know they have only achieved partial support for some of the most important standards. For IE to be completely standards compliant would be FANTASTIC!!! They are the only hold out at this point.

scrizz · 2004-10-20 #17

I don't think that Mozilla will be out of the loop however. I think that they will continue to enforce standards compliance. Traditionally Microsoft needs organizations like Mozilla to "push" them to stay current.

Hansen · 2004-10-20 #18

Didn't MS say that IE is the ultimate browser and it doesn't need any further upgrading..?

Nutrox · 2004-10-20 #19

Originally posted by harlequin
Having microsoft dictate standards is like having the US dictate world law.

(cough)The(cough)US(cough)tries(cough)to(cough)

Firefox is something I'm getting used to very quickly. If you've ever used setInterval in Flash to doing animation you'll notice that IE struggles to keep the timing right while NS and Firefox are both pretty spot-on.

mellowlab · 2004-10-20 #20

I have IE and Opera, i use only IE. if you want a faster browser Opera is faster and so is many others, but they dont work for everything as IE dose. If you want to surf faster on the net just get a faster internett connection, having 0,001sec faster browser dosent mater, at least not for me. I have tried many browsers and I still think IE is the best and Netscape is the worst.

Nutrox · 2004-10-20 #21

Originally posted by mellowlab
I have tried many browsers and I still think IE is the best and Netscape is the worst.

Name 5 things that IE can do that NS and Firefox can not do.

Saying "IE screws up CSS formating" doesn't count because we know that already

poppa · 2004-10-20 #22

Originally posted by kazual100
I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree??

We have a great standard for displaying HTML. You can find it at www.w3.org. The problem is that the giant at Redmond have no knowlede of this organisation

Armen · 2004-10-20 #23

Mozilla is the Best .
I use it more than 2 years.

pale_lips · 2004-10-20 #24

Originally posted by kazual100
....I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree??

the problem is, for some people, they often confuse that "standard" with microscrewfts own. ms may be the giant software company, but that doesn't give them the monopoly on technological innovations, (in fact, they're even reported of curtailing it... but that's another topic).

now if we wanna talk about standards, all we have to do is comply by the w3c's... which is what firefox et al has been doing all along...

i believe firefox can really turn the tables around against ie this time, ms has been sloppy in providing a stable platform with which to browse the web

Nutrox · 2004-10-20 #25

I have noticed though that the flash buttons on Ultrashock's front page don't seem to work with Firefox (and white borders appear around most things on the site).

I do like Firefox but I'm waiting to see how v1.0 handles things before making it my default browser. IE is still used for Ultrashock surfing

gtonic · 2004-10-20 #26

Yes, I have noticed that it shows table borders as well, I mentioned it above in my previous post. People seem to have not read what I said. I think I will use Mozilla instead of FF for now.

Nutrox · 2004-10-21 #27

Originally posted by gtonic
Yes, I have noticed that it shows table borders as well, I mentioned it above in my previous post. People seem to have not read what I said.

I was making a general comment, not directly replying to anything you had posted.

gtonic · 2004-10-21 #28

lolz, I wasnt saying you had to read my post previously. I just replied meaning that I also had the same problem as you and that I also noticed that people before you that had replied may not have seen my problem, I wasnt aiming at you saying you had to read my above post

Nutrox · 2004-10-21 #29

flavrsaver · 2004-10-21 #30

It just comes down to being standards compliant and by that I mean adhering to W3C's standards. It seems like a lot of the other browsers out there are adopting these standards, but they're not making as big of an overall impact since IE is basically the "average joe's" browser of choice. If Microsoft would just get their act together and make IE standards compliant, then basically all it come down to is preference, features, etc in deciding which browser is "the best". A lot of sites out there don't display the same way in Mozilla, FF, etc as they do in IE because they're designed around IE. That's just sloppy.

Nutrox · 2004-10-21 #31

Originally posted by flavrsaver
A lot of sites out there don't display the same way in Mozilla, FF, etc as they do in IE because they're designed around IE. That's just sloppy.

That's the main reason I test my sites in IE, FF, and NS. It's not always possible to get sites exactly the same in all browsers, but 9 out of 10 times it can be done.

NS is a bit graphic-heavy but I think it's probably the most "solid" browser at the moment as far as W3C standards are concerned. Even FF is a bit flakey with standards.. although it's 100 times better than IE.

mellowlab · 2004-10-21 #32

All browsers should be made that they follow one standard and validator, so we can just design sites for that instead of changing the code and everything to fit every browser that is out there. I dont know why i use IE, probably cuz force of habit. Opera is nice but when i do CTRL+N it opens a window inside opera insted of outside like IE dose that is one of the main resons i dont like opera. And some sites dont display correctly on it.

Basta · 2004-10-21 #33

erm, Mozilla comes from Netscape, and Firefox comes from Mozilla

most of Mozilla's base has been altered from Netscape, but lots of it is still similar, see The Cathedral and the Bazaar

Nutrox · 2004-10-21 #34

Originally posted by Basta
erm, Mozilla comes from Netscape, and Firefox comes from Mozilla

most of Mozilla's base has been altered from Netscape, but lots of it is still similar, see The Cathedral and the Bazaar

Yeah, I just ment "flakey" as in the "borders around tables" glitch that FF has. That doesn't happen with NS.

Shane · 2004-10-21 #35

Firefox...the new Opera. Personally i think its all crap and another annoyance in my daily activities.

Fakepilot · 2004-10-21 #36

Jocabola, thnx for the reply.

I have version 0.9.1. Doesn't work.

That's the annoying thing about new browsers, when you are a web designer, your suppose to make sites work with all browsers. When users complain that my site doesn't work in Firefox, should I blaim them for not having the latest version of Firefox?

Somehow, I get dirt, because Firefox makes a new browser that doesn't work correctly. I'll try that stylesheet. Thank you!

poppa · 2004-10-21 #37

Originally posted by Fakepilot
Somehow, I get dirt, because Firefox makes a new browser that doesn't work correctly.

In 99.99% of the cases Firefox is working as intended. In 99.99% of the cases it's non-W3C-compliant code that make things not work correctly.

I'm not saying Firefox is perfect, but when it comes to rendering HTML according to standards it's millon miles ahead of MSIE.

What's sad is that Microsoft has had 6 years to implement CSS2 and 8 years to implement full PNG-supprt in MSIE.

I think the greatest thing about Mozilla Foundation browsers being more and more popular is that it will force Microsoft to lay some efforts in making MSIE a better browser. So no matter which browser we prefer to use we will all benefit from MSIE contenders.

And what's more important I think is that we as web developers starts takning the W3-standards seriously. If we keep acting like lame asses and say: - Hey, MSIE is the de facto standard so I develop for it alone, we will never reach the point when "one design === all browsers".

If we compare the situation today with the situation when NS4 was to reccon with, I'd say we've come a long long way. It's a breeze making a site with diverse compatibility today, than it was four years ago.

So hear, hear! If we put the blow torch a little closer to Microsofts ass, we might reach the state of "one design === all browsers" before we can say: - Miko and Nrg, when the heck are you gonna bust the frames

Basta · 2004-10-21 #38

Originally posted by Fakepilot
should I blaim them for not having the latest version of Firefox?

no, but you should blamethem for expecting beta software to behave properly, which is the issue a 1.0 release solves

AlexD · 2004-10-21 #39

That's interesting news about FireFox. I downloaded their latest version available and once I found out that you can scroll (with the mouse wheel) graphics in a frameset that should instead be fixed, I immediately hated it.

Basta · 2004-10-21 #40

if you have focus on a frameset or iframe embedded inside a page and give focus to that element, that would be the behavior to expect

take

's main content for example

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	Ultrashock Forums > Community Essentials > News • [internet] Firefox nears 1.0, seeks NYT ad


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	kazual100	2004-10-19 #3
	umm, sorry - I personally HATE "The Browser Wars"....the differences in each browser (and the fact that you have to code around all these differences) makes my job as a developer WAY HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE!....I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree??

	satchmo511	2004-10-19 #4
	kazual100, I agree. Browser wars really urk me. We all have our preferences, but my goodness, what is all the fuss about? It is just a browser. I think the standard could definitely be better. Although, there is something to be said about job security. The more complex browsers become, and the greater differences between them, the more work I have to pay the bills.

	cubano1830	2004-10-19 #5
	I am curently using Firefox since come out and is very quick and nice (more than Opera or IE), i love it, and is the best browser ever made in the history of mankind

	Hansen Creative Assets	2004-10-19 #6
	Why not just follow the W3C's standards? I'm a late bloomer and have only used it for a few weeks but it's better than I ever thought a browser could be... I've got everything I need in one little window.. Sage provides me with easy access to all my news feeds and the Web Developer tool is simply amazing..

	megatron51	2004-10-19 #7
	Firefox is invaluable to me, I use it as my default browser for just about everything, the Web Developer toolbar extension is great, adding many useful features to your fingertips. The customizability is good too, just click to seamlessly install extensions for any other feature you may want, tabs are great too. The fact is, IE has been stagnant for about 3 years now, and blows in the standard's compliance area. These standards help to ensure that your site looks good in any browser, as a developer that saves me a lot of time coding if I know that different browser's follow the same standards. A site I recently finished required using PNG files as a border, because of their alpha transparency, I could "float" the site on the background. Guess what, IE lacks PNG support, so I had to find a javascript work around, but every other new browser seems to support the PNG format's inherent transparency. If anything comes out of this new round of "browser wars" I hope that Microsoft recognizes that they need to improve IE, the past few months have shown that open source technology can chip away at the IE stranglehold.

	ErieDesign	2004-10-19 #8
	I like firefox and opera a lot, but lets face it resistance is futile when your dealing with locutus gates. Only the true nerds will ever switch. <-nerd. Plus the more little browsers that come along and become moderatly popular the more f***ing time i spend making it so a table doesnt move 2 pixels on firefox but not on IE. arggh!

	harlequin	2004-10-19 #9
	I don't know guys, I donated 30 bucks because I'm sick of microsoft's attitude here. They've gone on record as saying; "We'll only support those standards that we think are worthwhile". Having microsoft dictate standards is like having the US dictate world law.

	Basta	2004-10-19 #10
	well Mozilla is at 17% and going strong true the stats are biased, but it gives a good rough idea

	gump	2004-10-20 #11
	firefox will become IE sooner or later, same as linux vs windows

	Fakepilot	2004-10-20 #12
	I like Firefox. Except one problem. If someone solves that, sure, I can support Firefox. Have anyone tried having an .swf in 100% width and height, no scale? Doesn't work in Firefox. Why?

	gtonic	2004-10-20 #13
	I hope that Microsoft recognizes that they need to improve IE, the past few months have shown that open source technology can chip away at the IE stranglehold. I certainly agree with you there. Microsoft need to really improve and boost IE's capabiltites and we will only see when its overhaul is intergrated in Longhorn. I really think it's ignorant the fact that they don't want to make IE full standard compliant. If they want internet users to keep using IE, then they would make sure everything is in fine working order and benefits a wide range of users such as designers like us among here. It has only been today, right now, that I am using Firefox for the first time because of a download problem. I think Firefox is great but I am no way indicating that we all should abandon IE. I think both web browsers are good in their separate areas. Of course, I do agree that Firefox has good features such as Tab Browsing, easy accessibility to menus and so forth. I think Mircosoft should ignore everything on the news or on the Internet. Not to ignore the fact they need to improve IE on security for example, but they should not be overwhelmed by the media and concentrate on making IE simply better. As you guys here have said, Design is not a job, its a passion. I cant see why it cannot be appied to Microsoft if they really want IE to be top. edit: Since im new to FF, guys how can I fix the webpage when I post a reply? I seem to have to scroll down more and I can actually see the table borders?

	jocabola	2004-10-20 #14
	Fake pilot... this problem with flash is solved since 0.9!! are u using 0.8? firefox is already at the 1.0 pre-release... anyway, you need to add the following code on your head: <style type="text/css"> html, body { height:100%; margin:0; padding:0; } </style> nothing can beat CSS! ;-)

	Trance	2004-10-20 #15
	If m$ launches a standard compliant IE7, then adios mozilla, that will be the basic expression of everyone, the reason why many people are switching to MOZ is beacuase IE sucks, but really sucks at handling CSS Let's see what IE 7 can say about that..

	scrizz	2004-10-20 #16
	Originally posted by Trance. If m$ launches a standard compliant IE7, then adios mozilla, that will be the basic expression of everyone, the reason why many people are switching to MOZ is beacuase IE sucks, but really sucks at handling CSS Let's see what IE 7 can say about that.. That’s the whole point. It would be great if Microsoft would follow the rest of the industry and comply with the W3C's recommendations but as of know they have only achieved partial support for some of the most important standards. For IE to be completely standards compliant would be FANTASTIC!!! They are the only hold out at this point.

	scrizz	2004-10-20 #17
	I don't think that Mozilla will be out of the loop however. I think that they will continue to enforce standards compliance. Traditionally Microsoft needs organizations like Mozilla to "push" them to stay current.

	Hansen Creative Assets	2004-10-20 #18
	Didn't MS say that IE is the ultimate browser and it doesn't need any further upgrading..?

	Nutrox 17 Creative Assets	2004-10-20 #19
	Originally posted by harlequin Having microsoft dictate standards is like having the US dictate world law. (cough)The(cough)US(cough)tries(cough)to(cough) Firefox is something I'm getting used to very quickly. If you've ever used setInterval in Flash to doing animation you'll notice that IE struggles to keep the timing right while NS and Firefox are both pretty spot-on.

	mellowlab	2004-10-20 #20
	I have IE and Opera, i use only IE. if you want a faster browser Opera is faster and so is many others, but they dont work for everything as IE dose. If you want to surf faster on the net just get a faster internett connection, having 0,001sec faster browser dosent mater, at least not for me. I have tried many browsers and I still think IE is the best and Netscape is the worst.

	Nutrox 17 Creative Assets	2004-10-20 #21
	Originally posted by mellowlab I have tried many browsers and I still think IE is the best and Netscape is the worst. Name 5 things that IE can do that NS and Firefox can not do. Saying "IE screws up CSS formating" doesn't count because we know that already

	poppa	2004-10-20 #22
	Originally posted by kazual100 I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree?? We have a great standard for displaying HTML. You can find it at www.w3.org. The problem is that the giant at Redmond have no knowlede of this organisation

	Armen	2004-10-20 #23
	Mozilla is the Best . I use it more than 2 years.

	pale_lips	2004-10-20 #24
	Originally posted by kazual100 ....I think we need a better standard for displaying HTML...anyone agree?? the problem is, for some people, they often confuse that "standard" with microscrewfts own. ms may be the giant software company, but that doesn't give them the monopoly on technological innovations, (in fact, they're even reported of curtailing it... but that's another topic). now if we wanna talk about standards, all we have to do is comply by the w3c's... which is what firefox et al has been doing all along... i believe firefox can really turn the tables around against ie this time, ms has been sloppy in providing a stable platform with which to browse the web

	Nutrox 17 Creative Assets	2004-10-20 #25
	I have noticed though that the flash buttons on Ultrashock's front page don't seem to work with Firefox (and white borders appear around most things on the site). I do like Firefox but I'm waiting to see how v1.0 handles things before making it my default browser. IE is still used for Ultrashock surfing

	gtonic	2004-10-20 #26
	Yes, I have noticed that it shows table borders as well, I mentioned it above in my previous post. People seem to have not read what I said. I think I will use Mozilla instead of FF for now.

	Nutrox 17 Creative Assets	2004-10-21 #27
	Originally posted by gtonic Yes, I have noticed that it shows table borders as well, I mentioned it above in my previous post. People seem to have not read what I said. I was making a general comment, not directly replying to anything you had posted.

	gtonic	2004-10-21 #28
	lolz, I wasnt saying you had to read my post previously. I just replied meaning that I also had the same problem as you and that I also noticed that people before you that had replied may not have seen my problem, I wasnt aiming at you saying you had to read my above post

	flavrsaver	2004-10-21 #30
	It just comes down to being standards compliant and by that I mean adhering to W3C's standards. It seems like a lot of the other browsers out there are adopting these standards, but they're not making as big of an overall impact since IE is basically the "average joe's" browser of choice. If Microsoft would just get their act together and make IE standards compliant, then basically all it come down to is preference, features, etc in deciding which browser is "the best". A lot of sites out there don't display the same way in Mozilla, FF, etc as they do in IE because they're designed around IE. That's just sloppy.

	Nutrox 17 Creative Assets	2004-10-21 #31
	Originally posted by flavrsaver A lot of sites out there don't display the same way in Mozilla, FF, etc as they do in IE because they're designed around IE. That's just sloppy. That's the main reason I test my sites in IE, FF, and NS. It's not always possible to get sites exactly the same in all browsers, but 9 out of 10 times it can be done. NS is a bit graphic-heavy but I think it's probably the most "solid" browser at the moment as far as W3C standards are concerned. Even FF is a bit flakey with standards.. although it's 100 times better than IE.