Copycats FAQ

2003-07-10

After spending some time browsing through the copycatz forum, I have noticed it could use a FAQ at the very top that clearly defines the terms of 'ripping' to prevent the nonstop arguments that go on over what 'is' and 'isnt' considered a rip. I will start by contributing my definitions to try to help clear up some of the confusion, and get this thing off the ground. Additionally I have included information about dealing with rips, based on analysis of the most successful methods. I would also like to work on a scale that people can use to reference the magnitude of a rip (maybe between 1-5) based on the guidelines that are set.

Classification
__________________________________________________
1) Any imagery, sound, layout or animation that is directly copied from its original source, captured via printscreen, decompiler, or sound recorder, and then re-used on another website, publication or other media published after the original is a direct rip.

2) imagery, layouts, animation, or sounds that are identifiably similar to an originally published distinct work, but are not the same due to the fact that they were recreated based on a previously published media is considered 'copying'. This is considered theft of intellectual property, and ranks just below direct ripping.

3) imagery, layouts, animation or sounds that slightly resemble an originally published work are considered 'inspired by' This is a loose term and must be better defined to distinguish works that are coicidentally similar. In order to better narrow it down, typically inspired works feature one or a few similar elements of an original, including dimensions, colors, imagery, or effect.

It should be noted that design trends commonly used by designers may be considered 'inspired by' depending upon the magnitude in which they are used, level of distinction, and if an original source can be attributed.

Dealing with rips
_____________________________________________
There are many ways to go about dealing with rips. I recommend handling these situations professionally, because the results are more beneficial for all parties involved.

1) Contact person responsible for published rip inquiring who created the rip, when it was published, and politely notify them they are in violation of copyright laws, and are legally liable to damages due to theft of intellectual property. The most common emotion people feel upon discovering a rip is anger, and often they act upon this emotion by verbally assaulting the person with contact information on the rip. Keep in mind that starting a flamewar might allow you to blow off some steam at the moment, but will not fix the situation.

2) Remain polite in discussion, do not cuss, or yell or show signs of anger; show signs of patience. This is the best way to get a rip taken down. It also allows you to pursue legal action if necessary. It is much harder to successfully sue someone if they have evidence that you vebally attacked them.

3) If you discover a rip of someone elses work, contact the original author first notifying them. It is their resposibility to contact the ripper, not yours.

Feel free to add other comments or questions about this text, it could serve as a great resource in the community, coming to a consensus is inportant in this case.

nrg · 2003-08-04 #2

That's a cool start for an FAQ!. Let's refine this in the next days.

Let's explain some symbols, cause I see them used incorrectly now and then:

© = Copyright
The C-mark is used next to an original work to show the public that it is copyright protected and therefor cannot be copied, distributed, recreated, etc without an agreement by it's original creator. The correct minimal usage of the copyright notice is as follows: ©2003 Ultrashock LLC (Copyright sign, first date of publication, copyright owner/creator of the original work).

® = Registered Trademark
May only be used when marks (such as names, symbols, logotypes, taglines, slogans, products, etc.) have been federally registered. It's actually a United States requirement. European law doesn't require you to put the R-sign next to a registered mark, if only registered in Europe.

TM = Trademark
The TM mark is used to alert the public, and does not require filing federal applications. It's pretty much a claim of ownership. The preferred usage is a smaller superscripted text : i.e. Ultrashock™.

SM = Service Mark
The Service Mark (sometimes called Slogan Mark) refers to a unique service. It appears on any form of advertising and literature ie: (slogans). It does not require federal registration. The preferred usage is a smaller superscripted text.

More info about copyright on these links:

10 Big Myths about Copyright explained
Trademarks and Copyrights Frequently Asked Questions
The United States Copyright Office
The Copyright Website
Web Law FAQ

DigitalOne · 2003-08-04 #3

Good stuff nrg and arrayed!

DavidNetk · 2003-08-04 #4

Very useful information.
Good job!

gjerryonly · 2003-08-04 #5

hey Arrayed........glad you are for constituting some rules....
lesser greatness has happened by defining politics.........
good show ...........

dharmesh · 2003-08-13 #6

Just checked the benedict website, great and useful stuff on that

Matt-Norwood · 2003-09-15 #7

With regards to all the ripping conversations that US has seen lately, I propose a "ripping scale" system so that subjectivity can be minimized. If I left any areas out, please let me know. Provide your own scale if you wish. I'm not doing this to be arbitrarily pedantic; it merely seems people say "rip" or "no rip", yet there are gray areas in between.

Here is my start below. I argue that Levels 1 and 2 constitute solid "rips". Levels 3 and above are "not guilty" in my eyes.

RIP LEVEL 1 - Swiffed or duplicated exactly as the original. Kill the bastard (e.g. Template Monster).

RIP LEVEL 2 - Site definitely seen by designer and inspired by; at least some material duplicated almost identically.

RIP LEVEL 3 - Site inspired somewhat; obvious that designer saw "original" and was influenced in design with no obvious design duplications

RIP LEVEL 4 - Coincidental similarities of sites at best; unclear whether designer had seen "original".

RIP LEVEL 5 - Little or no resemblance.

Thanks for your consideration.

-Matt

Matt-Norwood · 2003-09-15 #8

Apologies for duplicating a similar threat to "arrayed" dealing with RIPPING (COPYCATZ FAQ). I didn't see it here in Copycatz.

Goten · 2003-09-15 #9

nice scale system...

DigitalOne · 2003-09-15 #10

I'll sticky this for now, Matt. It'd be nice to see a system like this implemented.

Matt-Norwood · 2003-09-15 #11

Originally posted by DigitalOne
I'll sticky this for now, Matt. It'd be nice to see a system like this implemented.

Thanks, D-One. I just think sometimes we're too quick to shout "RIP" without taking each comparison on a case by case basis.

Many designers who work very hard--some of whom may be young or new to design but may not yet have developed their own styles--can be obviously influenced by the more prominent, well-known, and edgy designers who get the most press. I feel their work should be examined fairly rather than attacked outright, and guidance be given if they do "cross the line". Likewise, outright knobs who steal repeatedly for profit should be dealt with accordingly.

We should encourage those who are doing all they can to explore their creativity without prosecuting the innocent.

DavidNetk · 2003-09-15 #12

I like the scale!
I think it should be added to the FAQ section

arrayed · 2003-09-15 #13

I was hoping someone would add to the idea of a ripping scale, and I totally agree with what you have so far. The only thing I would add is a level above level one for "printscreeners" who steal directly without even trying to recreate. I also tried to implement guidlines for other forms of media, including flash, graphics, sounds, music, video, 3d, etc.

This thread is good though because it is more obvious than just "FAQ" Maybe they could be merged and renamed "Ripping Scale / FAQ" so that other people will notice it that may not have already read the FAQ (also containing peter's great IP/© info).

McLaranium · 2003-09-23 #14

currently I think I'm in the level 3 ... (reffer to macromedia.com threads by me )

Shane · 2003-11-04 #15

I've merged two threads into one big Copycats FAQ. In addition I've made some modifications to the Copycat Level classifications. In my opinion using the title "RIP" on everything just isn't appropriate. I agree with the Levels concept but I simply felt the descriptions and titles needed some clean up. So..Here we go.

From my experience, LEVEL 1 and LEVEL 2 (to a lesser extent) are serious matters that should be addressed by the individuals involved. LEVEL 3-5 are matters where the disgruntled party should simply laugh, smile and shake their head and move on. Oh..and maybe send a sarcastic e-mail...but I've never done a thing like that.

LEVEL 1 "RIP" - Use of decompiled SWFS, Screenshots, actual pieces of a site from the original, assets duplicated exactly like the original. Stolen sound effects are also included in this classification. Basically re-using pieces of a site in your own site. Pretty easy to spot.

LEVEL 2 "COPYCAT" - Site definitely seen by designer and inspired by; at least some material duplicated almost identically. I think here it is important to use the Term "Copycat" instead of a RIP. This pertains to Overal design, design elements, layout, color choices and sounds which when combined together form a distinct resemblance to the original. In my opinion this can also pertain to copied motion effects but only on a gross scale. An example of this would be taking the layout of the 2Av3 site (big main graphics area with 3 boxes of information below it) using the exact same motion effects and vector effects , using the same 45 degree angle title bars, but simply using different graphics of satellite dishes.

LEVEL 3 "INFLUENCED" - Site inspired; obvious that designer saw "original" and was influenced in design or design style of the site with no obvious design duplications. An example of this might be taking taking simply the layout of the 2Av3 site (big main graphics area with 3 boxes of information below it) but going into a different color palette..using completely different set of graphc styles and not using similar motion effects.

LEVEL 4 "STYLISTIC SIMILARITIES" - Coincidental similarities of sites because of a design style; Designer may have seen "original" but is also simply executing an existing trend or style. For example trying to compare two minimal sites.

LEVEL 5 - Not even any stylistic similarities. For example trying to compare www.2Advanced.com to www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/

As with anything there will always be grey areas. Especially between levels 3 and 4. As people grow and develop as designers it is natural to see something and be inspired by it enough that you re-create it. Everyone does it or has done it EARLY in their careers. Mostly these experiments are left on the computer and never see the light of day.

Since I am an untrained designer I've always had to learn from observing others. I've always associated Design to playing the guitar. At first you have to play other people's songs to get your skills down. Then after you have done that its time to write your own music if you want to complete your evolution. Just be careful of how influenced you are. The worst offenders I have ever seen were by young designers who had short deadlines and had no ideas. They therefore copied entire sites simply because of lack of time or ideas. Unfortunately those situations usually ALWAYS come back and bite the person in the butt when the company is contacted for copyright infringement, and the entire design has to be changed and you have to go and tell the client about what you did.

I've seen people lose their jobs over such things and it is never fun for anyone involved. Its a no win situation. For those people lurking and reading this, please just think twice before you do it. It will save you a big headache in the long run.

Matt-Norwood · 2003-11-04 #16

Pixelranger, thank you for your insight; your revisions are very appropriate.

mouthlock · 2003-11-06 #17

Originally posted by norwood
Pixelranger, thank you for your insight; your revisions are very appropriate.

agreed , more people should read this before mad posting *copycatz* threads like there is no tomorrow . . . .

**

**

exec · 2003-11-06 #18

WOW, nice job guys!!!

This is ofcourse useful to many

lunibin · 2003-11-06 #19

hey guys, thanks for the FAQ. in my short time at ultrashock i've seen some nasty war of words concerning rips. hope everyone see this FAQ.

thom2002 · 2003-12-22 #20

Nice guys, Pixelranger that site (www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/) hurts my eyes its so bright

. I like the level system and all seems far.

VR-Fist · 2003-12-25 #21

Keep this fine work! Thank you.

Tefrus · 2004-01-02 #22

"©2003 Ultrashock LLC "
LLC is from ?

flajunkie · 2004-01-02 #23

Limited Liability Corporation...

Basically states if someone goes blind from starring at ultrashock threads for to long Miko's personal property can not be up for grabs in court, only business related items that are under the UltraShock name.

Or something to that effect.

Tefrus · 2004-01-02 #24

10x

thom2002 · 2004-01-02 #25

man i keep forgetting that 5 isn't so bad and 1 is the worst crap u've ever seen. I keep sayin level1 when its not that bad and 5 when its a total rip

awww man :-D but dont worry I'm happy its all good cause i only looked stupid

...

Tefrus · 2004-01-03 #26

And LTD ?

AlexD · 2004-01-03 #27

A note on LLCs-- they usually require two people to form, except in some states.

Andy-M · 2004-01-03 #28

LTD is the same as LLC. LTD (limited or Ld.) is more common in Britain, Europe, and Commonwealth countries. (we have Ltd. in Canada too)

Pisces_Aus · 2004-01-07 #29

Hello everyone,

I've seen this thread and I'm glad I seen it! I'd always surf the net to look for inspiration, and eventually design what I need. I'm not a designer but a computer science student. Well, I don't study designs but programming and all the technical stuffs. I like design too though.

I used to copy all the time because my creative mind comes at unknown times (I don’t publish it though). Sometimes it just doesn’t come! I hate copy... I like uniqueness. Occasionally (I mean now), I'm able to create my own design (not really nice though) or modify others. I don't direct copy or rip the entire design.

Well, what I'm trying to say is that some of the threads here stated that there are sites that rip off others but I don't see any similarities at all. Some may just have the same colours, or same fonts, or "atmosphere".

According to arrayed's:-

Scale 1 : This should not be done by anyone. Direct copy is wrong.
Scale 2 : This should be considered though. "Layouts, animation... that are identifiably similar to an originally published distinct work" In this case, I'd say everyone is ripping off others in an infinite circular fashion. As we can see, professional websites uses the same animation, just that in the different way. Blur, transition, fade in, fade out, blinks, slide in from left, slide in from right... Basic layout; top banner followed by a row of horizontal buttons, large space in the middle for contents, and bottom banner. Most websites have this kind of layouts except SOME with creative minds. If those CREATIVE websites are copied or ripped,
then it is absolutely not acceptable.
Scale 3 : No comments. There are certain designs have 1% similar.
Pardon me for being slightly rude. There are a few idiots here claim 'rip' when it is not. It’s totally different. I guess it's because of the font. I said FONT... not FONTS.

By the way, thanks nrg for the symbols explanation. I understand those symbols now.

According to PIXELRANGR's:-

Level 1 : Agree
Level 2 : Agree
Level 3 : Slightly Disagree... as I've mentioned above, the basic layouts.
Level 4 : No comments.
Level 5 : No comments.

LEVEL 1 and LEVEL 2 (to a lesser extent) are serious matters that should be addressed by the individuals involved.

Agree with this.

LEVEL 3-5 are matters where the disgruntled party should simply laugh, smile and shake their head and move on. Oh..and maybe send a sarcastic e-mail...but I've never done a thing like that.

Why should you or anyone do that?

Well, if any of you should see my website, definitely you guys are saying it’s a rip of 2Av3… When I first designed my website, I don’t even know 2A and I got the layouts ready. Not to make you guys laugh, it’s actually a template from Flash MX. I used the basic layout with some changes though. Why I did that? Because I wanted to SPECIFY what my contents should be first, then only I’ll design a website that is of my own idea for the next version. But there’s one thing I copied, the colour. I like the blue colour so I copied it. There’s only one colour in my website and the rest I used white colour and fading.

Did you say where the link is? Nah… it’s still under construction…. All in all, these are my opinions as a student. I may be wrong and any guidance are very much appreciated.

enen · 2004-05-20 #30

In europe u can put a TM behind a name of a machine even when it is only patented and nothing more?

How can i make the TM in html (is there a special way whitout subscript)?

Thank u very much for answere.

Phunfoon · 2004-05-20 #31

I read on some US copyrights site that anyone can put copyright on anything they make without registration, the piece of creation just doesnt have registered proof. Is that true?

ahnubis · 2004-09-07 #32

Here is a little extra info from the copyright government site.
Chapter 13! Protection of Original Designs
it's contained in
Title 17 of the United States Code
This is the way to protect your designs if you feel the need and willing to pay for it.

ahnubis · 2004-09-07 #33

Originally posted by Phunfoon
I read on some US copyrights site that anyone can put copyright on anything they make without registration, the piece of creation just doesnt have registered proof. Is that true?

Yes I have read that, a copyright can be put on anything you have completed as a design. A copyright is established at the day of completion by the author/designer. Also a copyright can oulast it's author, meaning a copyright will still be in effect for few more years after your death.

As a matter of fact, here is a link to the duration of a copyright.
Duration of Copyright

ahnubis · 2004-09-07 #34

Originally posted by enen
In europe u can put a TM behind a name of a machine even when it is only patented and nothing more?

How can i make the TM in html (is there a special way whitout subscript)?

Thank u very much for answere.

Hey what's up enen, if you mean addign the TM at the end of a name or such, there is a trick to that using microsoft word. IF you type (TM) just like that in microsoft word and space after it, it will create it for you like this ™, all you have to do copy and paste it to you document of use. The same goes for the © ®

Another way is using the Character Map on your computer:
From your start menu > go to "All Programs" > then "Accessories" > then "System Tools" > then select "Character Map" It's harder to find in that method because the TM is assigned to only a few fonts. Hope that helps.

ahnubis · 2004-09-07 #35

Oh yeah, Forgot the HTML aspect Enen, just copy the symbol into Dreamweaver if you have it. You can copy it to Notepad aswell.

Darth-Awesome · 2004-10-14 #36

Here is my issue with the "10 myths about copyright laws" Accorfing to it, any creative work can not be rproduced as soon as its created. So what I can sue people for using periods between numbers in design elements? or however started this tren with /////// Hash marks can restrict the use of hash marks as a design tool?

Thats a load of crap. There are thousands of elements used to make one design 99% of which has been used before. Give me anysight and I'll find elements that have been used for years. So if one element is reproduced . . . not copied, no code of graphics taken, just a concept, and its used along with thousands of other elements in a different design it shouldn't be a copy right issue or a rip.

If we start belly aching about things a stupid as button animations, and loaders there will be nothing left for anyone to do. . . (correction. a project that should only take 1 week to do will take forever, as you make sure every concept ever button everly little graphical element has never been done before.

Darth-Awesome · 2004-10-14 #37

I read this great article in "STEP inside design" ( I love that mag) called "Generic Design" And it talk about how designs are reproduced in every aspect of the market these days. The Lincon LS is a Copy of a BMW, every pasta sause has the same label dimentsions, if you flip through any magazine I GUARENTEE you'll find at least two print ads that are uncanily similar.

What makes us in the Flash world so Goddamned special that we feel that if this happens in our little chunck of the world that its some grave injustice.

Its call competion, its called natural selection, its call drive. This whole copycat thing has gotten way out of hand, and we need to concentrate on the REAL offenders (template monster) and stop harrasing newbies that might emulate one of the vetrens.

Andy-M · 2004-10-14 #38

To be honest, the rules established above are relaxed compared to the real world.

The Lincoln LS vs BMW example. You're mixing up two sections of the US Copyright Act. What makes the Flash world so special? US Copyright Act Section 106A: copyright for works of visual art.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#106

The author owns the rights to the artwork and can control the usage of it, including preventing its usage or alteration...

(a) Rights of Attribution and Integrity. — Subject to section 107 and independent of the exclusive rights provided in section 106, the author of a work of visual art —

(1) shall have the right —

(A) to claim authorship of that work, and

(B) to prevent the use of his or her name as the author of any work of visual art which he or she did not create;

(b) Scope and Exercise of Rights. — Only the author of a work of visual art has the rights conferred by subsection (a) in that work, whether or not the author is the copyright owner. The authors of a joint work of visual art are coowners of the rights conferred by subsection (a) in that work.

...and the copyright exists as long as the person lives.

(d) Duration of Rights. — (1) With respect to works of visual art created on or after the effective date set forth in section 610(a) of the Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990, the rights conferred by subsection (a) shall endure for a term consisting of the life of the author.

Canadian Copyright Laws are essentially the same as the American Copyright Laws. Many countries have very similar, if not identical, laws to protect visual arts.

It's not called competition when it comes to visual art. Because you can market someone else's work better than them doesn't give you the rights to use it.

Bottom line: if you copy artwork, and you publish, you are breaking the law.

Darth-Awesome · 2004-10-14 #39

I here what you are saying, but your missing my point.

Its not that simple. So Every one now needs to stop using a mask and gradient to make something sheen.

Everone has to stop using white flashes as transitions, and or button rollover effects.

Thats rediculis. Where does it stop. If someone uses a font in a design, is that font off limits?

What I'm saying is according to that article you could twist everything into a copyright issue. WE HAVE TO PICK OUR BATTLES.

Darth-Awesome · 2004-10-14 #40

And are we calling web design Visual arts? or Marketing? or graphics design?

I thing its much more accurate to call Flash, Web, and Graphic design as

Media, not Visual Arts.

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	Ultrashock Forums > Career > Copyright Matters • Copycats FAQ


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	nrg 11 Creative Assets	2003-08-04 #2
	That's a cool start for an FAQ!. Let's refine this in the next days. Let's explain some symbols, cause I see them used incorrectly now and then: © = Copyright The C-mark is used next to an original work to show the public that it is copyright protected and therefor cannot be copied, distributed, recreated, etc without an agreement by it's original creator. The correct minimal usage of the copyright notice is as follows: ©2003 Ultrashock LLC (Copyright sign, first date of publication, copyright owner/creator of the original work). ® = Registered Trademark May only be used when marks (such as names, symbols, logotypes, taglines, slogans, products, etc.) have been federally registered. It's actually a United States requirement. European law doesn't require you to put the R-sign next to a registered mark, if only registered in Europe. TM = Trademark The TM mark is used to alert the public, and does not require filing federal applications. It's pretty much a claim of ownership. The preferred usage is a smaller superscripted text : i.e. Ultrashock™. SM = Service Mark The Service Mark (sometimes called Slogan Mark) refers to a unique service. It appears on any form of advertising and literature ie: (slogans). It does not require federal registration. The preferred usage is a smaller superscripted text. More info about copyright on these links: 10 Big Myths about Copyright explained Trademarks and Copyrights Frequently Asked Questions The United States Copyright Office The Copyright Website Web Law FAQ

	gjerryonly	2003-08-04 #5
	hey Arrayed........glad you are for constituting some rules.... lesser greatness has happened by defining politics......... good show ...........

	dharmesh	2003-08-13 #6
	Just checked the benedict website, great and useful stuff on that

	Matt-Norwood	2003-09-15 #7
	Ripping scale system With regards to all the ripping conversations that US has seen lately, I propose a "ripping scale" system so that subjectivity can be minimized. If I left any areas out, please let me know. Provide your own scale if you wish. I'm not doing this to be arbitrarily pedantic; it merely seems people say "rip" or "no rip", yet there are gray areas in between. Here is my start below. I argue that Levels 1 and 2 constitute solid "rips". Levels 3 and above are "not guilty" in my eyes. RIP LEVEL 1 - Swiffed or duplicated exactly as the original. Kill the bastard (e.g. Template Monster). RIP LEVEL 2 - Site definitely seen by designer and inspired by; at least some material duplicated almost identically. RIP LEVEL 3 - Site inspired somewhat; obvious that designer saw "original" and was influenced in design with no obvious design duplications RIP LEVEL 4 - Coincidental similarities of sites at best; unclear whether designer had seen "original". RIP LEVEL 5 - Little or no resemblance. Thanks for your consideration. -Matt

	Matt-Norwood	2003-09-15 #8
	Apologies for duplicating a similar threat to "arrayed" dealing with RIPPING (COPYCATZ FAQ). I didn't see it here in Copycatz.

	DigitalOne	2003-09-15 #10
	I'll sticky this for now, Matt. It'd be nice to see a system like this implemented.

	Matt-Norwood	2003-09-15 #11
	Originally posted by DigitalOne I'll sticky this for now, Matt. It'd be nice to see a system like this implemented. Thanks, D-One. I just think sometimes we're too quick to shout "RIP" without taking each comparison on a case by case basis. Many designers who work very hard--some of whom may be young or new to design but may not yet have developed their own styles--can be obviously influenced by the more prominent, well-known, and edgy designers who get the most press. I feel their work should be examined fairly rather than attacked outright, and guidance be given if they do "cross the line". Likewise, outright knobs who steal repeatedly for profit should be dealt with accordingly. We should encourage those who are doing all they can to explore their creativity without prosecuting the innocent.

	DavidNetk	2003-09-15 #12
	I like the scale! I think it should be added to the FAQ section

	Tefrus	2004-01-02 #24
	10x

	Tefrus	2004-01-03 #26
	And LTD ?

	arrayed	2003-09-15 #13
	I was hoping someone would add to the idea of a ripping scale, and I totally agree with what you have so far. The only thing I would add is a level above level one for "printscreeners" who steal directly without even trying to recreate. I also tried to implement guidlines for other forms of media, including flash, graphics, sounds, music, video, 3d, etc. This thread is good though because it is more obvious than just "FAQ" Maybe they could be merged and renamed "Ripping Scale / FAQ" so that other people will notice it that may not have already read the FAQ (also containing peter's great IP/© info).

	McLaranium	2003-09-23 #14
	currently I think I'm in the level 3 ... (reffer to macromedia.com threads by me )

	Shane 1 Creative Assets	2003-11-04 #15
	Last edited by Shane : 2003-11-06 at 21:07. I've merged two threads into one big Copycats FAQ. In addition I've made some modifications to the Copycat Level classifications. In my opinion using the title "RIP" on everything just isn't appropriate. I agree with the Levels concept but I simply felt the descriptions and titles needed some clean up. So..Here we go. From my experience, LEVEL 1 and LEVEL 2 (to a lesser extent) are serious matters that should be addressed by the individuals involved. LEVEL 3-5 are matters where the disgruntled party should simply laugh, smile and shake their head and move on. Oh..and maybe send a sarcastic e-mail...but I've never done a thing like that. LEVEL 1 "RIP" - Use of decompiled SWFS, Screenshots, actual pieces of a site from the original, assets duplicated exactly like the original. Stolen sound effects are also included in this classification. Basically re-using pieces of a site in your own site. Pretty easy to spot. LEVEL 2 "COPYCAT" - Site definitely seen by designer and inspired by; at least some material duplicated almost identically. I think here it is important to use the Term "Copycat" instead of a RIP. This pertains to Overal design, design elements, layout, color choices and sounds which when combined together form a distinct resemblance to the original. In my opinion this can also pertain to copied motion effects but only on a gross scale. An example of this would be taking the layout of the 2Av3 site (big main graphics area with 3 boxes of information below it) using the exact same motion effects and vector effects , using the same 45 degree angle title bars, but simply using different graphics of satellite dishes. LEVEL 3 "INFLUENCED" - Site inspired; obvious that designer saw "original" and was influenced in design or design style of the site with no obvious design duplications. An example of this might be taking taking simply the layout of the 2Av3 site (big main graphics area with 3 boxes of information below it) but going into a different color palette..using completely different set of graphc styles and not using similar motion effects. LEVEL 4 "STYLISTIC SIMILARITIES" - Coincidental similarities of sites because of a design style; Designer may have seen "original" but is also simply executing an existing trend or style. For example trying to compare two minimal sites. LEVEL 5 - Not even any stylistic similarities. For example trying to compare www.2Advanced.com to www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/ As with anything there will always be grey areas. Especially between levels 3 and 4. As people grow and develop as designers it is natural to see something and be inspired by it enough that you re-create it. Everyone does it or has done it EARLY in their careers. Mostly these experiments are left on the computer and never see the light of day. Since I am an untrained designer I've always had to learn from observing others. I've always associated Design to playing the guitar. At first you have to play other people's songs to get your skills down. Then after you have done that its time to write your own music if you want to complete your evolution. Just be careful of how influenced you are. The worst offenders I have ever seen were by young designers who had short deadlines and had no ideas. They therefore copied entire sites simply because of lack of time or ideas. Unfortunately those situations usually ALWAYS come back and bite the person in the butt when the company is contacted for copyright infringement, and the entire design has to be changed and you have to go and tell the client about what you did. I've seen people lose their jobs over such things and it is never fun for anyone involved. Its a no win situation. For those people lurking and reading this, please just think twice before you do it. It will save you a big headache in the long run.

	Matt-Norwood	2003-11-04 #16
	Pixelranger, thank you for your insight; your revisions are very appropriate.

	mouthlock	2003-11-06 #17
	Originally posted by norwood Pixelranger, thank you for your insight; your revisions are very appropriate. agreed , more people should read this before mad posting copycatz threads like there is no tomorrow . . . . ****

	exec	2003-11-06 #18
	WOW, nice job guys!!! This is ofcourse useful to many

	lunibin	2003-11-06 #19
	hey guys, thanks for the FAQ. in my short time at ultrashock i've seen some nasty war of words concerning rips. hope everyone see this FAQ.

	thom2002	2003-12-22 #20
	Nice guys, Pixelranger that site (www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/) hurts my eyes its so bright . I like the level system and all seems far.

	flajunkie	2004-01-02 #23
	Limited Liability Corporation... Basically states if someone goes blind from starring at ultrashock threads for to long Miko's personal property can not be up for grabs in court, only business related items that are under the UltraShock name. Or something to that effect.

	thom2002	2004-01-02 #25
	man i keep forgetting that 5 isn't so bad and 1 is the worst crap u've ever seen. I keep sayin level1 when its not that bad and 5 when its a total rip awww man :-D but dont worry I'm happy its all good cause i only looked stupid ...

	AlexD	2004-01-03 #27
	A note on LLCs-- they usually require two people to form, except in some states.

	Andy-M	2004-01-03 #28
	LTD is the same as LLC. LTD (limited or Ld.) is more common in Britain, Europe, and Commonwealth countries. (we have Ltd. in Canada too)

	Pisces_Aus	2004-01-07 #29
	Hello everyone, I've seen this thread and I'm glad I seen it! I'd always surf the net to look for inspiration, and eventually design what I need. I'm not a designer but a computer science student. Well, I don't study designs but programming and all the technical stuffs. I like design too though. I used to copy all the time because my creative mind comes at unknown times (I don’t publish it though). Sometimes it just doesn’t come! I hate copy... I like uniqueness. Occasionally (I mean now), I'm able to create my own design (not really nice though) or modify others. I don't direct copy or rip the entire design. Well, what I'm trying to say is that some of the threads here stated that there are sites that rip off others but I don't see any similarities at all. Some may just have the same colours, or same fonts, or "atmosphere". According to arrayed's:- Scale 1 : This should not be done by anyone. Direct copy is wrong. Scale 2 : This should be considered though. "Layouts, animation... that are identifiably similar to an originally published distinct work" In this case, I'd say everyone is ripping off others in an infinite circular fashion. As we can see, professional websites uses the same animation, just that in the different way. Blur, transition, fade in, fade out, blinks, slide in from left, slide in from right... Basic layout; top banner followed by a row of horizontal buttons, large space in the middle for contents, and bottom banner. Most websites have this kind of layouts except SOME with creative minds. If those CREATIVE websites are copied or ripped, then it is absolutely not acceptable. Scale 3 : No comments. There are certain designs have 1% similar. Pardon me for being slightly rude. There are a few idiots here claim 'rip' when it is not. It’s totally different. I guess it's because of the font. I said FONT... not FONTS. By the way, thanks nrg for the symbols explanation. I understand those symbols now. According to PIXELRANGR's:- Level 1 : Agree Level 2 : Agree Level 3 : Slightly Disagree... as I've mentioned above, the basic layouts. Level 4 : No comments. Level 5 : No comments. LEVEL 1 and LEVEL 2 (to a lesser extent) are serious matters that should be addressed by the individuals involved. Agree with this. LEVEL 3-5 are matters where the disgruntled party should simply laugh, smile and shake their head and move on. Oh..and maybe send a sarcastic e-mail...but I've never done a thing like that. Why should you or anyone do that? Well, if any of you should see my website, definitely you guys are saying it’s a rip of 2Av3… When I first designed my website, I don’t even know 2A and I got the layouts ready. Not to make you guys laugh, it’s actually a template from Flash MX. I used the basic layout with some changes though. Why I did that? Because I wanted to SPECIFY what my contents should be first, then only I’ll design a website that is of my own idea for the next version. But there’s one thing I copied, the colour. I like the blue colour so I copied it. There’s only one colour in my website and the rest I used white colour and fading. Did you say where the link is? Nah… it’s still under construction…. All in all, these are my opinions as a student. I may be wrong and any guidance are very much appreciated.

	enen	2004-05-20 #30
	In europe u can put a TM behind a name of a machine even when it is only patented and nothing more? How can i make the TM in html (is there a special way whitout subscript)? Thank u very much for answere.

	Phunfoon	2004-05-20 #31
	I read on some US copyrights site that anyone can put copyright on anything they make without registration, the piece of creation just doesnt have registered proof. Is that true?

	ahnubis	2004-09-07 #32
	Here is a little extra info from the copyright government site. Chapter 13! Protection of Original Designs it's contained in Title 17 of the United States Code This is the way to protect your designs if you feel the need and willing to pay for it.

	ahnubis	2004-09-07 #33
	Originally posted by Phunfoon I read on some US copyrights site that anyone can put copyright on anything they make without registration, the piece of creation just doesnt have registered proof. Is that true? Yes I have read that, a copyright can be put on anything you have completed as a design. A copyright is established at the day of completion by the author/designer. Also a copyright can oulast it's author, meaning a copyright will still be in effect for few more years after your death. As a matter of fact, here is a link to the duration of a copyright. Duration of Copyright

	ahnubis	2004-09-07 #34
	Originally posted by enen In europe u can put a TM behind a name of a machine even when it is only patented and nothing more? How can i make the TM in html (is there a special way whitout subscript)? Thank u very much for answere. Hey what's up enen, if you mean addign the TM at the end of a name or such, there is a trick to that using microsoft word. IF you type (TM) just like that in microsoft word and space after it, it will create it for you like this ™, all you have to do copy and paste it to you document of use. The same goes for the © ® Another way is using the Character Map on your computer: From your start menu > go to "All Programs" > then "Accessories" > then "System Tools" > then select "Character Map" It's harder to find in that method because the TM is assigned to only a few fonts. Hope that helps.

	ahnubis	2004-09-07 #35
	Oh yeah, Forgot the HTML aspect Enen, just copy the symbol into Dreamweaver if you have it. You can copy it to Notepad aswell.

	Darth-Awesome Creative Assets	2004-10-14 #36
	Here is my issue with the "10 myths about copyright laws" Accorfing to it, any creative work can not be rproduced as soon as its created. So what I can sue people for using periods between numbers in design elements? or however started this tren with /////// Hash marks can restrict the use of hash marks as a design tool? Thats a load of crap. There are thousands of elements used to make one design 99% of which has been used before. Give me anysight and I'll find elements that have been used for years. So if one element is reproduced . . . not copied, no code of graphics taken, just a concept, and its used along with thousands of other elements in a different design it shouldn't be a copy right issue or a rip. If we start belly aching about things a stupid as button animations, and loaders there will be nothing left for anyone to do. . . (correction. a project that should only take 1 week to do will take forever, as you make sure every concept ever button everly little graphical element has never been done before.